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Home > Society & Culture > Religion > Christianity   »   Isaiah 7: 14

 
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 07:09 AM
deist
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Isaiah 7: 14

Do christians really study their bibles ? Isaiah 7: 14 is usually interpreted as a prophecy of the alleged virgin birth of Jesus; "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel". Was this really a prophecy at all ? Was it fulfilled hundreds of years later in Jesus ? If a person continues reading Isaiah on to the next chapter, 8: 3, we see that Isaiah didn't intend this alleged prophecy to refer to Jesus. Isaiah fulfilled the prophecy himself in his lifetime; "Then I went to the prophetess, & she conceived and bore a son. Then the Lord said to me, 'Call his name Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz'. Isaiah had sexual relations with the prohetess, possibly is own wife, & she bore Isaiah a son". The prophecy has no reference to Jesus. Furthermore, the prophecy actually has no reference to a virgin. The Hebrew word for virgin used in Isa. 7: 14 is almah, which more properly refers to a young woman or a lass. If Isa. 7: 14 were really referring to a young woman who has not had sexual relations the Hebrew word would have been bethulah.

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Old Oct 5, 2007, 07:46 AM   #2  
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I was discussing this with a friend just last night.

One must be very careful which prophecies can be accurately described as Messianic and which are actually talking about something else altogether.
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 10:21 AM   #3  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Do christians really study their bibles ? Isaiah 7: 14 is usually interpreted as a prophecy of the alleged virgin birth of Jesus; "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel". Was this really a prophecy at all ? Was it fulfilled hundreds of years later in Jesus ? If a person continues reading Isaiah on to the next chapter, 8: 3, we see that Isaiah didn't intend this alleged prophecy to refer to Jesus. Isaiah fulfilled the prophecy himself in his lifetime; "Then I went to the prophetess, & she conceived and bore a son. Then the Lord said to me, 'Call his name Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz'. Isaiah had sexual relations with the prohetess, possibly is own wife, & she bore Isaiah a son". The prophecy has no reference to Jesus. Furthermore, the prophecy actually has no reference to a virgin. The Hebrew word for virgin used in Isa. 7: 14 is almah, which more properly refers to a young woman or a lass. If Isa. 7: 14 were really referring to a young woman who has not had sexual relations the Hebrew word would have been bethulah.
I could go into other reasons to refute your assumption that this does not refer to Jesus, but let's just look at the most obvious. A "young woman" giving birth would not be a sign. I don't know how it is where you live, but young women giving birth is pretty much the norm, not a "sign". A virgin giving birth, however, now that would be something of note and definitely would fall into the "sign" category.
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 10:55 AM   #4  
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Originally Posted by Tj3
I could go into other reasons to refute your assumption that this does not refer to Jesus, but let's just look at the most obvious. A "young woman" giving birth would not be a sign. I don't know how it is where you live, but young women giving birth is pretty much the norm, not a "sign". A virgin giving birth, however, now that would be something of note and definitely would fall into the "sign" category.
I believe the sign is in the name chosen for Isaiah's son, Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz (Hasting to the booty, or Swift to the prey).
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 11:00 AM   #5  
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You have posted alot of bible related questions. No matter what who says God's Word remains perfect

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Leidenschaftlich für Wahr agrees: well not putting a comma after 'says' threw me off, but i totally agree :)
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 11:06 AM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Do christians really study their bibles ? Isaiah 7: 14 is usually interpreted as a prophecy of the alleged virgin birth of Jesus; "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel". Was this really a prophecy at all ? Was it fulfilled hundreds of years later in Jesus ? If a person continues reading Isaiah on to the next chapter, 8: 3, we see that Isaiah didn't intend this alleged prophecy to refer to Jesus. Isaiah fulfilled the prophecy himself in his lifetime; "Then I went to the prophetess, & she conceived and bore a son. Then the Lord said to me, 'Call his name Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz'. Isaiah had sexual relations with the prohetess, possibly is own wife, & she bore Isaiah a son". The prophecy has no reference to Jesus. Furthermore, the prophecy actually has no reference to a virgin. The Hebrew word for virgin used in Isa. 7: 14 is almah, which more properly refers to a young woman or a lass. If Isa. 7: 14 were really referring to a young woman who has not had sexual relations the Hebrew word would have been bethulah.

You seem like a very codemning person Deist! Yes we study our Bibles. My question is that I don't see how these two events or prophesies are related except they are written by Isaiah?
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 12:04 PM   #7  
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FundiEv Christians study their Bibles all the time to the exclusion of other kinds of reading material.

The problem is comprehension, comprehension of contradictory material that in addition, suffers from translation and other problems old manuscripts have had over the ages. Most people read casually for the pleasure and affirming their views, not in depth which shows inconsistencies and other problems-I'm speaking of the New Testament here.

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kindj agrees: "FundiEv Christians study their Bibles all the time to the exclusion of other kinds of reading material." Really? I just finished "das Kapital" for the second time...and am about to re-read "The Brothers Karamazov." Any other blanket statements?
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 01:54 PM   #8  
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Yes, Isaiah 7:14 is a prophecy, that was fulfilled in the birth of Christ, Immanuel, "God is with us." You either believe it or you do not. To say the prophecy was fulfilled by the birth of Isaiah's own son is false.
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 03:16 PM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
I believe the sign is in the name chosen for Isaiah's son, Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz (Hasting to the booty, or Swift to the prey).
You can believe what you wish, but let's see you prove that his mother was a virgin when he was born.
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 03:52 PM   #10  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
You can believe what you wish, but let's see you prove that his mother was a virgin when he was born.
Even the word virgin in Isaiah 7: 14 (Hebrew almah) does not refer to a woman who has not had sexual relations, that would be the Hebrew word bethulah. Almah simply means "young woman", bethulah means "virgin".
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