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Oct 10, 2007, 04:51 PM
| | New Member | | Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1
| | | did Jesus say I'm God Did Jesus say to himself I'm God | | | | | | |
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Oct 15, 2007, 06:37 AM
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#31
| | Ultra Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada
Posts: 5,665
| Quote: | Originally Posted by silentrascal ... few years longer in this Satan-controlled system... | This world isn't controlled by an imaginary devil; individuals make bad decisions based on their circumstances. Take responsibilty for your actions and stop saying 'the devil made me do it'. | |
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Oct 15, 2007, 07:12 AM
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#32
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 185
| Quote: | Originally Posted by NeedKarma This world isn't controlled by an imaginary devil; individuals make bad decisions based on their circumstances. Take responsibilty for your actions and stop saying 'the devil made me do it'. |
I take responsibility for what I do. The world IS controlled by Satan. The Bible makes it very clear that Satan is the "god of this system of things" and that "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one". Satanic influence abounds, there's no question about that, and Satan cannot be the scapegoat for all of our wrongs, most of which is our own doing. | |
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Oct 15, 2007, 07:33 AM
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#33
| | Follower of Islam
Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: On a path to peace,complete peace!
Posts: 2,197
| Quote: | Originally Posted by silentrascal Yes, it would mean that. Christians are to "abstain from.....blood" as Acts 15 brings out. Now the naysayers will spew out the standard line about "helping my fellow man" by giving blood, but therein lies the problem......they'll put what they view as helping their fellowman out over their obedience to God. Let's see....on one hand there's breaking God's law and accepting blood, with only the slight chance of the person surviving and living a few years longer in this Satan-controlled system, or there's upholding God's law and refusing blood although it may mean the loss of your life. But you have to believe that God, who granted us life to begin with, is certainly more than capable of giving us life again, especially if we lost it in the process of being obedient to him. |
Is this really true?
I mean I cannot believe that the Almighty will ask us not to give blood or have blood transfusion when it is medicallyy advised.
I can understand not taking money for blood donation as I believe in that. | |
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Oct 15, 2007, 08:12 AM
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#34
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 185
| Quote: | Originally Posted by firmbeliever Is this really true?
I mean I cannot believe that the Almighty will ask us not to give blood or have blood transfusion when it is medicallyy advised.
I can understand not taking money for blood donation as I believe in that. |
God views blood as precious, as sacred, and as a representation of life itself. As the Creator, he has every right to place such a prohibition upon us. Being "medically advised" doesn't necessarily mean it's the best course of action. Abstaining from blood can safeguard us from a number of easily transmitted diseases and other illnesses, so there is value in heeding God's counsel to us in that respect. The other respect would be as was mentioned earlier, that if you get to the point in which your life may be at risk, is it worth it to try and live a little longer in this system, or, should you die, would you rather experience the reality of the hope that the Bible tells us about, that of a resurrection back to life in the New World promised by God? The prohibition against blood can be found in both the Hebrew (aka "old testament") Scriptures as well as the Christian-Greek (aka "new testament") Scriptures, so it is something that God has not permitted for his people in the past and does not permit for his people today. | |
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Oct 15, 2007, 08:21 AM
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#35
| | Ultra Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada
Posts: 5,665
| I would rather mu daughter receive a pint of blood and live 50 years longer than do it your way and let her die. I rather enjoy her company. | |
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Oct 15, 2007, 09:51 AM
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#36
| | Follower of Islam
Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: On a path to peace,complete peace!
Posts: 2,197
| Quote: | Originally Posted by NeedKarma I would rather mu daughter receive a pint of blood and live 50 years longer than do it your way and let her die. I rather enjoy her company. |
On this I have to agree with you and I would donate blood when I can, no second thoughts about it.
As you said I would want the same thing for my daughter when and if she needs blood, because life and death is not in our hands.
It is upto us to use the medical help available to cure and help those who are suffering get a better life until they face their deaths.
silentrascal,
Just for information sake I am not a Christian.I had never heard of this not giving or receiving blood , which is why I asked about it.Not to argue. | |
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Oct 15, 2007, 10:15 AM
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#37
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 185
| Quote: | Originally Posted by NeedKarma I would rather mu daughter receive a pint of blood and live 50 years longer than do it your way and let her die. I rather enjoy her company. |
And I'd rather my daughter die faithful to God with the prospect of eternal life in paradise, than to live a temporary further 50 years (if even that much time is left) in this Satan-controlled world. I'd rather enjoy her company as well, permanently. But then again that's just me.....I'd be concerned over my daughter's eternal welfare, not selfishly thinking shortsightedly. | |
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Oct 15, 2007, 10:43 AM
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#38
| | Full Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 220
| Quote: | Originally Posted by silentrascal And I'd rather my daughter die faithful to God with the prospect of eternal life in paradise, than to live a temporary further 50 years (if even that much time is left) in this Satan-controlled world. I'd rather enjoy her company as well, permanently. But then again that's just me.....I'd be concerned over my daughter's eternal welfare, not selfishly thinking shortsightedly. | Man you are brainwashed. No wonder there are no doctors who are Jehovah's Witnesses. | |
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Oct 15, 2007, 10:50 AM
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#39
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 185
| Quote: | Originally Posted by deist Man you are brainwashed. No wonder there are no doctors who are Jehovah's Witnesses. |
Must be a very sad life you lead, to be so cynical and out-of-touch. | |
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Oct 15, 2007, 05:00 PM
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#40
| | Full Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 339
| Quote: | Originally Posted by silentrascal And I'm obedient to God who says that we're to abstain from blood, in the book of Acts. I don't take in blood and I don't give blood for others to take in, either (thus their breaking God's law). |
The Jehovah's Witness doctrine on blood transfusions comes from here: Gen 9:4
4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.
NKJV
The context of this verse indicates that it was directed towards Noah and his family after they had come out of the ark on to dry land, and represents one of the dietary laws of the Old Testaments. This was one of the laws which was fulfilled when Christ came, shed his blood, and rose again, fulfilling the prophetic significance of many of the Old Testament laws. Acts 10:12-16
12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." 14 But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean." 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common." 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.
NKJV
Further, the reference here is to animal blood, which is eaten, not human blood that is used in a blood transfusion. There is no credible medical publication anywhere, which would equate a blood transfusion with eating blood. As for the argument as to whether the blood carries the soul in it, let’s look at the context of this verse, by looking at what scripture says immediately following:
Gen 9:5-7
5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man's brother I will require the life of man. 6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man. 7 And as for you, be fruitful and multiply; Bring forth abundantly in the earth And multiply in it."
NKJV
The context is that the word “life” does not actually mean life, because it is referring to life and death. The word use for life in this context is “nephesh” which means a breathing creature, or literally, that it is alive, not that it has a soul. (Reference: Strong Concordance). Further, if we were to interpret it as “soul”, this would suggest that the animals (which the verse refers to in context) have souls. Thus in context, this verse means exactly what it says. It refers to the eating of animal blood, and cannot in any way be taken to refer to blood transfusions, or to suggest that a man’s soul is in the blood. Let's cross reference Genesis 9:4 to Leviticus 3:17 which states:
Lev 3:17
17 'This shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings: you shall eat neither fat nor blood.' "
NKJV
If the Watch Tower Society were using a consistent approach to interpretation, they would ban the eating of fat as well as blood based upon this verse. Yet we have never heard of a prohibition by the Watchtower Society against eating fat. The Watch Tower Society also does not prohibit eating meat which has blood in it, which is in fact what Genesis 9:4 specifically speaks about. It is interesting to know that the Jews meticulously drain the blood out of all their meat, yet accept blood transfusions. Thus they do not equate transfusions with eating. Though we should not base our understanding of scripture upon the interpretation of any specific group, the fact that the Jews, to whom this was written and in whose language this was originally written, do not understand the word "life" the way that the Watch Tower Society does is worthy of note.
In yet another inconsistency in the application and interpretation of scripture, the Watch Tower Society does permit a Jehovah’s Witness to use, at their own discretion, constituent parts of the blood, but not the whole blood itself. Here is a quote from Bioethical aspects of the recent changes in the policy of refusal of blood by Jehovah's Witnesses -- Muramoto 322 (7277): 37 -- BMJ, which is a website maintained by the Jehovah’s Witnesses: "The other policy change came in the form of an article in the 15 June 2000 issue of the official magazine Watchtower. After defining the "primary components" of blood (red and white blood cells, platelets, and plasma) that must be refused, the article stated that "beyond that, when it comes to fractions of any of the primary components, each Christian, after careful and prayerful meditation, must conscientiously decide for himself." Although some of these fractions, such as albumin and globulin, had already been considered a matter of personal decision, this new policy declared that "fractions of any of the primary components" are now acceptable. One of the most noteworthy points of this change is that the fractions or parts derived from prohibited cellular components are now permitted. The new policy cites interferons and interleukins as examples, but the most profound impact will be seen when and if haemoglobin based blood substitutes are introduced into general use. As recently as 1998 two representatives of the Watchtower Society wrote to a journal for researchers of blood substitutes stating that "[Jehovah's Witnesses] do not accept hemoglobin which is a major part of red blood cells . . . According to these principles then, Jehovah's Witnesses do not accept a blood substitute which uses hemoglobin taken from a human or animal source." As haemoglobin based blood substitutes are now used in clinical trials with some success, this reversal of the ban on haemoglobin may have a major impact on the medical care of patients who are Jehovah's Witnesses who may participate in such trials. "
It appears that the Watch Tower Society also believes that under some circumstances, blood products are okay, so they obviously do not even interpret either Genesis 9:4 or Lev 3:17 to be an absolute prohibition against the intake of blood. Further, how did they determine which part of the blood it is in which the soul resides? I have also been advised by Jehovah's Witnesses that since the Bible makes no clear statement about the immediate re-infusion of a patient's own blood during surgery, a medical process known as blood salvaging, the use of such treatments is a matter of personal choice. Of course the Bible makes no statement about infusion of the blood at all, but that does not appear to have impacted the doctrinal position of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. | |
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