Is Jesus Christ God?
Investigate these interesting claims... The earliest followers of Jesus all seemed pretty convinced that Jesus was fully God in human form.
Paul said, "He is the image of the invisible God...in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell."
John said that Jesus created the world.
Peter said, "Every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." But what did Jesus say about himself?
Did he ever identify himself as God? According to the Bible...absolutely! Below are some of his statements made while on earth, in their context. Is Jesus God? How he implied he was God: The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59)
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)
And so when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments, and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:12-14)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)
Is Jesus God? How he described himself: Jesus therefore said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world." They said therefore to Him, "Lord, evermore give us this bread." Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:32-35)
Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life." The Pharisees therefore said to Him, "You are bearing witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true." Jesus answered and said to them, "Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true; for I know where I came from, and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from, or where I am going." (John 8:12-14)
Jesus therefore said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:7-11)
Martha therefore said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You." Jesus said to her, "Your brother shall rise again." Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world." (John 11:21-27)
Is Jesus God? What he said he was sent here to do: But Jesus called them to Himself, and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. It is not so among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:25-28)
For He was teaching His disciples and telling them, "The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later." But they did not understand this statement, and they were afraid to ask Him. (Mark 9:31-32)
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
"All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:37-40)
Do you believe what the bibles says about Jesus being God?

arcura

31Pumpkin,
You said. "How much clout one wants to give to God or Jesus is personal & depends on what a person's satisfied with or comfortable with."
I agree!!!
Peace and kindness,
Fred

beautifuldiva

You have much knowledge on this subject, yet I am still unsure of your position... do you feel that the Bible teaches that Jesus and God are one being?

"The Word" is a title given to Jesus translated in Greek "ho Lo'gos" Regaurding the Son's prehuman existence, John says: "In the beginning the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." (John 1:1 New World Translation) the King James version and the Douay Version read: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and teh Word was god." This would make it appear that the Word was identical with Almighty God, while the former reading, the New World Translation, indicates that the Word is not the God, Almighty God, but is a mighty one, a god. (Even the judges of ancient Israel, who wielded great power in the nation, were called "gods." [Ps 82:6; John 10:34, 35]) Actually, in the Greek text, the definite article ho, "the", appears before the second.

Other translations aid in getting the proper view. The interlinear word-for-word reading of the Greek translation in the Empahtic Diaglott reads: "In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word." The accompanying text of the Diaglott usus capital and small letters for the God, and initial capital and lowercase letters for the second appearance of "God" in the sentence: "In the Beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was with GOD, and the LOGOS was God."

These renderings would support the fact that Jesus, being the Son of God and the one USED BY GOD in creating all other things (Col 1:15-20), is indeed a "god," a mighty one, and has the quality of mightiness, but is NOT the Almighty God.

As regaurds to Thomas's statement at John 20:28 (My Lord and my God) does it prove that Jesus is truely God?

There is no objection to referring to Jesus as "God," if this is what Thomas had in mind. Such would be in harmony with Jesus' own quotation from the Pslams in which powerful men, judges, were addressed as "gods." Of course, Christ occupies a position far higher then such men. Because of the uniquiness of his position in relation to Jehovah, at John 1:18 Jesus is referred to as the "only begotten god." All of this is in harmony with Jesus' being described as "a god" or "divine"

The context helps us to draw the right conclusion from this. Shortly before Jesus' death, Thomas had heard Jesus' prayer in which he addressed his Father as "the only true God." (John 17:3) AFter Jesus' resurrection Jesus had sent a message to his apostles, including Thomas, in which he had said: "I am ascending..... to my god and your God." After recording what Thomas had said when he actually saw and touched teh resurrected Christ, the apostle John stated: "These are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may bave life in this name." (John 20:31)

So, if anyone has concluded from Thomas' exclamation that Jesus is himself the "the only true God" or that Jesus is a Trinitarian "God the Son," he needs to look again at what Jesus himself said (vs. 17) and at the conclusion that is clearly stated by the apostle John (vs. 31).

*gaaaaaaassssspp*

Morganite

Theologians with 'several degrees in theology' remain scholars and theorists. Theology is not science. There are no ;scientific' experiments that can be repeated over and over yielding the same result each time. Theologians take what is known of mankind's religious experience and try to make sense of it, God, the universe, life, and man's relationship to Deity.

What makes any theologian a 'credible source'? Multiplying degrees is no guarantee that one theologian is more credible than theologians with fewer degrees. I am at a loss to follow your thinking here. The first Christian theologian was Saint Paul who had a grand total of no degrees.

M

31pumpkin

Morganite-
I only said(at the very beginnining of this thread that I consider a theologian (any # of degrees but best if in different religions) more credible if they are a Minister also of that Faith. This shows me that they practice what they preach in service to the community. The pastors I tend to listen to or read their books have both a degree & are or were Ministers. This suggests to me that they have faith in their belief & that they know it works.
It was regarding the "Jesus Seminar" that one poster mentioned. I thought it was shallow since the participants were theologians & not ministers. They seemed so "off" with the Bible even compared to the average Christian.
That's all I remember right now. You can read that Jesus Seminar link & judge for yourself.

LUNAGODDESS

Time and Time again Jesus has stated he is doing the work of his father...Jesus is not the creator of himself...but the creator's helper...along with the holy spirit..

Morganite

Thank you for the clarification. I know of the Jesus Seminar people, and my impression of them is that they signal a departure from much that is traditionally considered Christian. Their own website carries the following statement:


Until a few years ago, essential knowledge about biblical and religious traditions was hidden in the windowless studies of universities and seminaries—away from the general public. Such research was considered too controversial or too complicated for lay persons to understand. Many scholars, fearing open conflict or even reprisal, talked only to one another. The churches often decided what information their constituents were "ready" to hear.



That passage alone is replete with errors that a five year-old child would not make. For example:

1. I have yet to see a windowless study in either university or religious seminary.
2. Theologians and Bible scholars publish their findings and their publications are on sale to anyone sufficiently interested.
3. Most of the controversial matter has been in the public arena for centuries. There is no 'hidden' work.
4. Theologians tend to speak in language peculiar to their discipline, as do scholars in any field. However, anyone with a dictionary can discover what the hard words mean.
5. I do not accept that theologians are such a pusillanimous group that they fear criticism, conflict, or reprisal.
6. Theologians do not limit their 'talk' to other theologians. They are a talkative lot and talk to cats and dogs if there are no other persons present!
7. I have never met a theologian who was other than readily accessible to all, whether another theologian, a lay person, clergy, or student.
8. Theology is about ideas, and ideas do not develop in vacuums, but in crucibles of debate, often passionate, partisan, and wide-ranging.
9. Churches have no machinery to keep any kind of information from their constituents (an interesting political term, where one would expect to find 'congregations,' or 'members.')

It is beyond dispute - and no theologian would dispute it - that theology and related subjects is by and large highly specialized, but that does not mean that it is inaccessible to non-specialists. Anyone with sufficient interest in the subject can unlock what might appear to be its 'secrets,' but which, in reality, are no more secret or arcane than are Home Owner's Association manuals.

Theology is a subject that probably has a longer history than any other scholastic discipline, and to appreciate the development of theological and christological thought does take some effort, because there is no shortcut to obtaining a reasonable knowledge of any subject. If one is capable of learning the rules of, say football, or baseball, etc., then one is capable of getting to grips with theological terminology and expressions of the human religious experience, and of getting on terms with theological thinkers old and new.

Theology itself has never been difficult to understand. It is the introduction of abstract philosophical concepts into what began as a fairly concrete system that put the cat among the pigeons, but ultimately it is a matter of how much a person really wants to understand theology in its many manifestations.

Here endeth the lesson.


MRGANITE

galveston

Has anyone mentioned this passage yet?

Isa 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
(KJV)

I suspect that in spite of our best honest efforts, we will continue to have difficulty in understanding the Creator in every aspect. We can know Him in a very personal sense through the Holy Spirit, thankfully!

Will144

Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?
Which means:
My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?

Many people are confused about this, and unfortunately false prophets makes matters even worse. It's a prophecy friend




It's a very good questions that you ask. For the most part, people don't understand why he said such words, people don't understand it's a prophecy. Mormons stick to that one verse to kill people spiritually by saying that Jesus was not the Messiah. The Answer is found in the bible, let's see

Jesus Christ was supposed to fulfill the prophecy of King David.

In Is 9:6-7 it describes Jesus sitting on King David's throne. But king David had died 300 years before then. At this point most people will say "The bible contradicts itself" No, the bible is perfect. It means He will become a spiritual King David.

King David was baptized when he was 30 years old

2 Samuel 5:4
"David was thirty years old when he became king....."

When do you think Jesus was baptized?

Luke 3:21-23

"When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."
23Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry."




So far everything makes sense right? Now the answer to your questions..

King David said before he died:
Psalm 22:1
"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

What do you think Jesus said just before he died, when he was on the cross? You've got it

Mark 15:34

"And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Because of this, people think he is not God. But he's true God who came in the flesh. If you have any questions, please feel free to email me.

Morganite

Interesting. Can you give a reference to where Mormons say Jesus was not the messiah? I have heard that they do. Could you be confusing them with another denomination?

MRGANITE

arcura

The Mormons I know believe Jesus is the Messiah.