Is Jesus Christ God?
Investigate these interesting claims... The earliest followers of Jesus all seemed pretty convinced that Jesus was fully God in human form.
Paul said, "He is the image of the invisible God...in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell."
John said that Jesus created the world.
Peter said, "Every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." But what did Jesus say about himself?
Did he ever identify himself as God? According to the Bible...absolutely! Below are some of his statements made while on earth, in their context. Is Jesus God? How he implied he was God: The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59)
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)
And so when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments, and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:12-14)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)
Is Jesus God? How he described himself: Jesus therefore said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world." They said therefore to Him, "Lord, evermore give us this bread." Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:32-35)
Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life." The Pharisees therefore said to Him, "You are bearing witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true." Jesus answered and said to them, "Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true; for I know where I came from, and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from, or where I am going." (John 8:12-14)
Jesus therefore said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:7-11)
Martha therefore said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You." Jesus said to her, "Your brother shall rise again." Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world." (John 11:21-27)
Is Jesus God? What he said he was sent here to do: But Jesus called them to Himself, and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. It is not so among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:25-28)
For He was teaching His disciples and telling them, "The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later." But they did not understand this statement, and they were afraid to ask Him. (Mark 9:31-32)
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
"All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:37-40)
Do you believe what the bibles says about Jesus being God?

Jonegy

Logically - I suppose the first Gods would have been of the Sun, Water and the Earth (as in soil) - followed swiftly by fertility and other social necessities when man became a herder rather than hunter ending with the numerous collection of Gods of the hindus/egyptians/greeks/romans et al.

It seems that the Jews were the first to parcel this little bunch up into one all knowing "Almighty".

Next comes Jesus teaching to the poor and underpriveleged who because he made a bit of an impact was quickly hi-jacked by the "noble and wise". (I think the highest socially ranked actual desciple was the Tax Collector, wasn't he ??). As this Jesus had probably been dead for 2 or 3 hundred years they needed an "Image".
Luckily, by this time the Romans had taken dominance over the Greeks so the hi-jackers noticing a handy load of golden coloured statues around the place - left by the greeks - mounted then on Crucifixes and Hey Presto.
Small addendum to this story : These statues were of Helios the Sun God - hence your nice little "halo".

Next on the scene is Mohamed ( c.5 A.D.??? not sure and not interested enough to look up the exactities). Who believes in Jesus and his works - but only as a prophet. - He has seen what an unholy debacle the christians have made of things (The rift between RC and Orthodox) and goes back to just one "God". He in turn is declared a prophet and the Muslims are born.

(I'm not 100% sure of the Muslim story and any input by a believer is welcome)

The Christian Church in the meantime plodded on gloriously and became the domain of the aristocracy. ( 1st Son takes over the estates/titles etc; -
2nd Son goes to the Military and if there's a 3rd Son, he goes to the church and depending on Daddy's Rank becomes a Bishop, Archbishop or Cardenal).

I presume this could have been another reason for the rising of the Protestants who .....(sorry about the next bit but can't resist the temptation) begat Lutherans, who begat Methodists, who begat Baptists, who begat ........and so it went (and goes) on. Think of a clever twist and all you need is someone gullible to believe you and away you go - after all according the the British author and traveller Capt. Marryat, who was around at the time, one of the originators of the Mormons was a convisted con artist. Sorry I can't remember which one but it is over 30 years since I read the book.

Finally, the Second Coming. He had better get his dates right, because if he came back now they would lock him up as a raving junky/pot head/crack head etc: Even if he'd arrived in McCarthy's time he'd have been locked up as a raving Commy.

Anyway a final message to you miriads of believers in miriads of religions who have all got one thing in common - only YOU and the believers in YOUR particular sect are going to enter the "Gates of Heaven". Ahhhh!! if only your beliefs were true - I would love the see the faces of all those who had been paying their 10% to the Church and got the wrong one !!!!!

Me ???? - If you lot are right ???? - I'll just pick up my shovel and head on down to the stoke hole with the rest of my pals. It would drive me crackers up there with you lot quoting religion all day.

So - Why am I posting in the Religion Section????? Like you I have also seen the light and am trying to show you the error of your ways. (and save you some time and money into the bargain - after all - I don't pass around the collection tray after my Sermon

DrJizzle

First off, isnt Jesus quoted in the Bible saying that we are no different than He? That we are capable of the same acts as He? (Im sorry, I have studied the Bible but finding a specific verse will be difficult and Im sure that you who are well versed in the Bible (no pun intended) could pinpoint it better than I)

Also, are we not "all powerful, all wise, all understanding, all present, all knowing plus infinite and eternal"?? It may not appear so now, but what about when our Earthly bodies parish? Doesnt the Bible also say that once we enter Heaven, we will know these things? Do we just BECOME these all knowing souls or are we now but we are limited by Earthly and Human Laws?

Were we not created from God?

I suppose part of the difference in our thinking is how we define God. Personally, I dont think that God is personified. God is. God is as you claim... God is the positive and the negative... God is Jesus... God is Satan... God is Man... God is all.

That doesnt necessarily mean that all is God... but all is created of God. However, in our purest form, wouldnt we be that which is God?

How can God know the Perfect Hour? God is the Perfect Hour. God doesnt have a brain. He is the Alpha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... and Everything in between.

(BTW, I am not, in anyway, disagreeing with any of you. I respect each of your opinions and beliefs. I have never really had the chance to discuss these things because most of my friends are not willing to engage in any of these discussions lol. These are all things that I have pondered and have been swarming around in my head. I really like hearing your feedback.)

(Oh, I also wanted to say that when I capitolize pronouns, I dont mean it in a negative way... I wasnt exactly sure what you were getting at with that pumpkin lol. I capitolize a lot of pronouns to show importance and respect, I suppose.)

To Jonegy,

You bring up some interesting points. I am not well versed in History. You may be right, you may be wrong in some of your points. It doesnt matter to me.

I had thought that God/faith/religion was all just a bunch of bull... a way to control the masses. I was fairly content in those beliefs for some time. But there was one thing wrong with my thinking... one thing I could not figure out. The only thing that I couldnt pin down was a presence within me... the presence of God. You can call it social brainwashing, you can call it psychosis, you can call it whatever you want. But I think that we all feel it. Many of us choose to deny it becuase it doesnt coincide with our beliefs... but it is there.

My search since I have accepted this is simply to get to know myself better. If you have actually read the posts here, you may have realized that I do not claim any religion. I am certain that religion has been corrupt from the very beginning. It hasnt changed to this day. But its not about reliegion... its about whats in you... who you really are. Its so undeniable now...

STONY

Remember When Peter Called Jesus The Messiah? Jesus Told Him This Was Revealed To Him By The Father In Heaven. Bear In Mind That "emanuel" In Hebrew Means "god Be With Us."

RickJ

Ok, I confess, I've not read all of this so my piping in is just a response to the initial question: "Did Jesus say he was God".

I did search this thread and see that John 20:28-29 is not mentioned:

Thomas said to [Jesus], "My Lord and my God!"

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

So there Jesus affirms that Thomas believes correctly: That He is God.

arcura

Jonegy,
With all due respect your version of religious history is a mess. That comes from your statement "I suppose". Supposing causes some of the biggest errors in religion and what it is all about.

Jesus was not hi-jacked by the noble and wise. His followers ranged from ignorant common folks like fishermen, publicans and tent makers to a few people of high rank. While his apostles numbered but 12 his disciples were a great many more.
Many of those IN THEIR LIFETIME founded churches as far way as in Rome itself, Britannia in the West to India in the East and Africa in the south.
By the way Rome was in control of the Holy land long BEFORE the birth of Christ.
From what fantasy did you get the story of the crucifix? That was funny. LOL.

Your date for Mohammed of "5.A.D???" was a little off… Mohammed founded Islam in 622 A.D. You missed it by just 6 centuries.

Christendom was made up primarily of the common people who far out numbered the aristocracy, over several 1000 to 1.

Yes the Church did break up into several sects but please note that they have far far more similarities in belief than differences.

As far as the second coming is concerned when Jesus returns there will be no possibility of the picture you paint.

Your assumption that each different denomination thinks that only their members will go to heaven is not correct. Only a few of the smaller groups claim that.

In your final paragraph you claim to have seen the light. It appears that the light you saw was very dim and flickering.
Rather than showing us the error of out ways, as you claim, you have shown us the errors of your thinking, religious knowledge, and history.
You have a lot of studying ahead of you if you ever want to get it right.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Stony,
Very good point. Thanks!!!
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Rickj,
Very good point. Thanks!!!
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

kp2171

aw come on. six centuries is nothing in geological time.



reminds me of the saying my cousin states this time of year during Lent (tongue in cheek.. its satire, folks)

"Yeah, way to ruin Easter, Jesus"

arcura

kp21871,
It please me that you found so much joy in my post.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Jonegy

Hi Fred (Arcura)

My "supposing" was based on "supposings" of higher authorities than I.

The whole "New Testament" as such is a "supposition", based on the opinions of theologians, scholars and interpreters.

The earliest known dated papyrus directly translatable to the New Testament (the John Ryllands) was written in 125 - 130 AD and the earliest known "Patristic" writings ( Clement's ) have been dated at 95 AD ( another opinion or supposition? ) and from what I understand of these writings, are purely to found the authority of the "Elders" of the church.

The Greek Empire extended out to modern day India in the east and remains from this era are even being unearthed today, hence, the theory of the Helios is not mine but of archealogists who recognised the similarity of the ancient statues with the early crucifixes.

Sorry about the "typo" error referring to Mohamed. It should have read "500" of course and not "5". I think however that the majority of people know that Mohamed was not a contemporary of Jesus and that the context of my post showed this.

Yes Fred - the common people outnumbered the autocracy by 1000 to 1 much as they do today but it is the those in authority that rule and it is their lives and actions that are handed down through history. ( Do you honestly believe that in a hundred years time, history will show that the British Government went to war against the wishes of 85% of its electorate ) ........ Thinking on, that fellow Clement comes to mind here

Finally Fred, you use the Bible and it's quotations for your "proof". The Bible can be used to say/prove just about anything. "an eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek" being one of the most quoted examples - even the churches own scholars can't agree on how many people wrote the Gospel of St John but apparently it was at least three. In other postings I've seen the theologians, scholars and interpreters as being deluded in their findings........... but I must ask you to remember that it was these same people that composed the " King James Version " that is used for so many "quotations".
You may be able to help me with one of those quotations - we were taught in one of those Sunday School stories... " and Jesus said "Where two or more are gathered in my name - there is my church". which leads to one big contradiction ...... Why is so much money being wasted on buildings, their up keep and the clergy ??????

Oh well - Happy days and in the words of that great Irish comedian Dave Allan ...............
"May your God go with you"

RickJ

This is precicely why many who are in the know about ancient texts (including non-Christians) consider the writings of the NT more reliable than other ancient texts that have come down to us.

Nowhere in this period do we find other copies of ancient works dated so close to the time the work was originally written.

arcura

jonej,
Some of those so-called authorities ignore the fact that documents which have survived to this day refer to other earlier documents long lost, in many cases do to deterioration. The copies we have of the gospels are just that. Copies of the earlier originals.
As for your bible quote, I have 8 different versions of the bible and none of them say what you have written. Most of them use these words, "Matthew 18: 20. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them." NONE of them say there is my CHURCH.
Jesus was speaking of a personal spiritual presence.
When I think of my parents and discuss them with my brother, though they have passed away they are spiritually there with us, if in no other way than in memory. Do you understand that thought?
Personally I believe that Jesus is with us much more than in memory only.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)