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Okay, so I just found this thread and tried to read the whole thing but it got kind of redundent twords the end so I may have skipped a bit so I'm not sure if anyone has said this or not.
According to most of you I'm going to hell :-) and oddly enough I'm okay with that because your views are not the same as mine.
I think it's impossible to say if a person is going to heaven or hell or if they can do good in the sight of G-d if they are any religon, atheism included. Technically only in your heart do you know if G-d is real or not because you cannot prove his existance...it all depends on faith. You don't know until you die weather heaven or hell is even real or not and I'm not sure about you I haven't spoken to too many dead people lately.
Moreover, this question is kind of biased because if the person would have asked can a christian truly do good in the sight of G-d most of you would have said "hell yea!" because most of you are christian. Your beleifs teach you different things about different religons and there are so many religons out there and not all of them can be right about the ideas of other religons or even G-d for that matter...and please spare me and don't say that you know with all your hear and soul christianity is right because you might in your heart and soul but that is not physical evidence it is faith.
Now for my actual take on this question....
We are all G-d's children reguardless of religon (yes I'm inculding Islam because Allah is the same G-d that Jews and Christians have and there are probably more religons that I'm forgetting that have branched off these primary three). If G-d actually loves us like we think he does he would not condem us ALL to eternal suffering unless we did something terrible (being a non-christian dosen't count as terrible in my book, sorry).
I'd like to think that G-d loves all of us equal reguardless of religon, therefore we are all good in the sight of G-d.
I've always said I don't have a problem with people who are intellectually honest enough to admit they are relying on their 'faith'. It's those who insist that their conclusion that a supernatural being exists is based on some rational conjecture based of evidence that I have a huge problem with. Just call it 'faith' and we'll get along fine.
I do not believe that I am “relying” on faith. In fact, I will go as far as to insist that my conclusion of the supernatural is well thought out and exist on rational conjecture and evidence as supplied. I welcome your thoughts and if you can demonstrate to me how I am wrong, I will humbly acquiesce with gratitude for the superior knowledge.
You say you have a problem with this. I find it odd that your pursuit seems intellectual but you yet you seem very similar to the religious that you admonish. it seems to me you are doing the same thing they are. Telling people what they have to believe, which is counter-intuitive to intelectualism.
What is the difference between what they do and what you do? Essentially you are saying that as long as people admit that it is only faith, that it has no basis in reality, fact or evidence, that you will accept their opinions. However as soon as they place it outside of the category of faith you have a “big” problem.
You are admitting that you have a problem with people who don’t conform to your standards of how things should be looked at. You are not different, you are using the same methods from a different perspective.
Okay, so I just found this thread and tried to read the whole thing but it got kind of redundent twords the end so I may have skipped a bit so I'm not sure if anyone has said this or not.
Then you missed all the good stuff!
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According to most of you I'm going to hell :-) and oddly enough I'm okay with that because your views are not the same as mine.
We left all that hell stuff back with the religious.
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I think it's impossible to say if a person is going to heaven or hell or if they can do good in the sight of G-d if they are any religon, atheism included. Technically only in your heart do you know if G-d is real or not because you cannot prove his existance...it all depends on faith. You don't know until you die weather heaven or hell is even real or not and I'm not sure about you I haven't spoken to too many dead people lately.
I for one dont know much about heaven or hell, but I think lob allow you to believe these things if you kept it in the parameters of your "faith".
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Moreover, this question is kind of biased because if the person would have asked can a christian truly do good in the sight of G-d most of you would have said "hell yea!" because most of you are christian.
Yeah, I think you missed the past four pages or so the people you are refering to retired.
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Your beleifs teach you different things about different religons and there are so many religons out there and not all of them can be right about the ideas of other religons or even G-d for that matter...and please spare me and don't say that you know with all your hear and soul christianity is right because you might in your heart and soul but that is not physical evidence it is faith.
Man you are going to get on well with Lob on that faith issue!
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Now for my actual take on this question....
We are all G-d's children reguardless of religon (yes I'm inculding Islam because Allah is the same G-d that Jews and Christians have and there are probably more religons that I'm forgetting that have branched off these primary three). If G-d actually loves us like we think he does he would not condem us ALL to eternal suffering unless we did something terrible (being a non-christian dosen't count as terrible in my book, sorry).
I think Christians deserve your criticism. If there is a god and I believe there is, we are all his creattion. As for being children, well I do not like that characterization much. It places God in the catagory of Father, and if that is so, he is a pretty lousy one!
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I'd like to think that G-d loves all of us equal reguardless of religon, therefore we are all good in the sight of G-d.
I would like to think that also. It is unfortunate that it takes a brain to think instead of warm, fuzzy emotions. If God is a father and loved us equally, he is a dead beat dad as a Good father would treat his children equally, love them equally, feed them equally, protect them equally. He/it doesnt.
I welcome your thoughts and if you can demonstrate to me how I am wrong, I will humbly acquiesce with gratitude for the superior knowledge.
I just need to be presented with this 'evidence' you speak of. I'm sure that's where we're gonna disagree.
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You say you have a problem with this. I find it odd that your pursuit seems intellectual but you yet you seem very similar to the religious that you admonish.
I don't fault you for using it, but that's a very old and tired argument. I'm not the one making any claims. I'm simply stating there is no compelling reason to think that gods exist, just as there is no compelling reason to think a Flying Spaghetti Monster exists. If YOU think you do, like I said... I'm all ears.
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Telling people what they have to believe, which is counter-intuitive to intelectualism.
Again, I am not in any way, shape, or form, telling anyone what to believe. I'm merely pointing out that if you want the rest of us to believe that your imaginary friend really exists, then the onus is upon you to provide some evidence this is so. Otherwise, you can't expect non-believers to take you seriously. If I told you there was a ghost living in my closet, I wouldn't expect you to take me seriously unless I could offer up evidence for why I think so. (btw- I'm using 'you' in a general sense. I don't mean you personally).
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Essentially you are saying that as long as people admit that it is only faith, that it has no basis in reality, fact or evidence, that you will accept their opinions. However as soon as they place it outside of the category of faith you have a “big” problem.
That is correct.
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You are admitting that you have a problem with people who don’t conform to your standards of how things should be looked at.
Here's the key point we disagree on. They are not just MY standards. They are the same standards you yourself would hold anyone to on any other subject except religion or theism. Think about it... What other subject would you allow me to get away with simply 'asserting' something to be true without any evidence for it? What about that ghost living in my closet? Sound plausible to you?
I think you're pushing logic beyond its useful domain here. For categorical logic like this to work, it has to be applied to a concept of "god" for which a precise and unambiguous distinction between "god" and "not god" has operational meaning. I don't think we're there yet.
I'm simply saying that one of the following propositions are true: 1). There is a god. 2). There is no god.
I'm simply stating there is no compelling reason to think that gods exist, just as there is no compelling reason to think a Flying Spaghetti Monster exists.
There is too a Flying Spaghetti Monster...prove there is not!
I'm simply saying that one of the following propositions are true: 1). There is a god. 2). There is no god.
Do you dispute this?
Yes, I do dispute it, at least until we have an operational definition of "god" to work from. Only if we can agree on a clear and unambiguous distinction between "god" and "not god" are we in a position to apply the rules of categorical logic to determine the truth or fallacy of each statement. Until then, both are meaningless.
Yes, I do dispute it, at least until we have an operational definition of "god" to work from. Only if we can agree on a clear and unambiguous distinction between "god" and "not god" are we in a position to apply the rules of categorical logic to determine the truth or fallacy of each statement. Until then, both are meaningless.
I was thinking this as I wrote my response and am glad you brought it up. I very much agree with you. Suppose our universe was started by a 5th dimensional kid playing with his chemistry set. Would he be considered a god? What if we are living in an alien's computer simulation? Would the alien be a god?
So you're 100% correct that we need to define what we mean by 'god'. But whichever one of these specific gods we are talking about, I think we can agree that each one either exists or does not. A biblical god who can simultaneously listen to and answer billions of prayers, either exists as stated, or does not. If one wants to assert that such a god exists, then he is obliged to offer evidence before expecting anyone else to believe it also. Would you at least agree with that?
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