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OK, one of my major battles is finding time, place and way for prayer. I have tried early morning (always hit snooze); evening (distracted by whatever); and in the car (thoughts wander off to distant places). Here's the Q. How do you incorporate daily prayer and devotion into your life? How do you overcome the battle against the gift we have been given to be in the Presence of the LORD? How do you shut out the world and make this a priority in your life? I really would like to know how others are fighting this battle. Kel
You are correct and I apologize. I didn't realize this is what most Christians believe. To be honest, I'm still not so sure, but I'll take your word for it until I find out otherwise.
So yes, or no... Are saying that most practicing Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc., will find their way to God in heaven? Or let me rephrase it. Are you saying that it's possible even for someone who is ignorant about Jesus Christ and worships Allah instead can be saved?
If this is what you're saying, I'll have to change my opinion of you at least somewhat. Christians believing they have an inside track to heaven and into God's grace, while everyone else is doomed to eternal hell cuz oops!... They missed out on Jesus, is a HUGE problem for me.
The Catholic religion must be softening. I'm sure when I was a kid, the answer was that people born in African villages who never heard of Jesus would unfortunately be sent to hell. I'm sure, because I remember asking my teacher Sister Alice about it and I'll never forget her answer or the look of pity on her face! Not sure how old you are, but I'm in my 40's. Back in my day, Catholicism was much stricter, gloomier, and more guilt ridden than it is now.
I think you've explained God and heaven adequately and to my satisfaction. If I understand you correctly, you are saying:
God and heaven are perfection. They are absolute. Heaven is not so much a place as it is a state of perfection. Of all that is good and the complete absence of evil and all that is bad.
Since none of us are perfect (or can ever hope to be), it is impossible to be worthy of God's grace and His presence in heaven. In this way, heaven cannot be earned. We are never fully deserving of God or heaven. However...
God so loves us He is willing to provide us with a way to join Him in the glory of heaven. This is why He sent Jesus His only Son down to die for us. In this way, if we accept Jesus as our Savior, we might hope to be cleansed of our sins enough to enter heaven.
I might have a few things wrong here and there, but is this about right?
You've explained this all very well and I greatly appreciate it. It's even starting to make some logical sense to me when put in this way. Although I still don't get why Jesus had to be so brutally tortured.
Yes my dear, you have it right!!! I am so glad it is starting to make sense to you!!
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Originally Posted by lobrobster
I'm also unclear on why God can't just forgive us.
I answered this in my above post when I talked about blood representing life.
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Originally Posted by lobrobster
Or why there is an earthly time limit for our souls to be cleansed.
Because this world is going to end when God so chooses. He is not going to let the world continue in sin when this was not His intentions for the world in the beginning. But because it is sinful, He has provided us a way to live for eternity in the new earth (Heaven). Also to go along with that is that the limit is when you die. I will go into further deatail about that below...
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Originally Posted by lobrobster
Why can't those of us who don't believe all this stuff take care of it in the eternal afterlife?
Because God wants you to choose to believe in Him. If He allowed you to wait until you see Him, until you know without a doubt that He is True then you no longer have a choice. You will believe because the proof is right in front of you. Actually it will no longer be about believing it will be absolute fact. This is not choosing Him. Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." See, He rewards those who have faith. The ultimate reward of having faith that He is real and that He sent His Son to die is eternity in Heaven.
Why doesn't He just show everyone He is Truth, why must we have faith? Because, think about it. If we know without a doubt that He is Truth then we have no choice but to believe. Then we are essentially "robots". Forced to believe in Him because there is no other choice. If we have no choice but believe in Him then can we truly know what we have? You can't know what good is unless you know bad. This is why the tree of knowledge was put in the garden. It gave Adam and Eve the choice to trust in God's goodness and to choose to obey Him rather than be forced to because there is no other option.
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Originally Posted by lobrobster
Exactly what is it about my soul that changes after accepting Jesus?
Your soul will then spend eternity in bliss in heaven with your loving, merciful and graceful creator instead of punishment for your sins. This is the change, your soul is now delighful to God, pleases God. Your soul is eternal either way, salvation just changes the place in which your eternal soul will spend that eternity.
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Originally Posted by lobrobster
What you're saying is that even if I sin less than you do, you're soul is cleansed with your acceptance of Jesus. Why is that? If I see Jesus after death I would accept Him as well. Now we both accepted Him, but I have sinned less than you (hypothetical... I'm not saying I really sin less than you).
It is not about how much or how little you sin. It is because you sin period that you need cleansing. I answered above about seeing Jesus after death and believing.
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Originally Posted by lobrobster
Why are you saved, but I am not?
Because I had what God wanted me to have...faith. I believed that God sent His Son to save my soul therefore I received salvation. You must have faith. You must believe wholeheartedly in God and that Jesus died for you in order to be saved. And you must do this before you die. Otherwise it is not about faith anymore.
lobrobster,
God allows all to know Him. He does not hide. Those who ignore Him will face the consequences.
Psalm 97:5-7 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)
5 The mountains melt like wax before the Lord,
before the Lord of all the earth.
6 The heavens proclaim his righteousness;
every nation sees his glory.
7 Those who worship idols are disgraced—
all who brag about their worthless gods—
for every god must bow to him.
John 20:31
but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
John 20:30-31 (in Context) John 20 (Whole Chapter)
Philippians 2:9-11 (New King James Version)
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
. I didn't realize this is what most Christians believe. To be honest, I'm still not so sure,
Major Traditional branches 1995
Branch Number of Adherents Catholic 968,000,000
Protestant 395,867,000
Other Christians 275,583,000
Orthodox 217,948,000
Anglicans 70,530,000 Major Branches of Religions
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but I'll take your word for it until I find out otherwise.
You don't have to take my word for it. The Catholic Church is the largest Christian church, representing over half of all Christians, and is the largest organized body of any world religion.[3] Roman Catholic Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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So yes, or no... Are saying that most practicing Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc., will find their way to God in heaven? Or let me rephrase it. Are you saying that it's possible even for someone who is ignorant about Jesus Christ and worships Allah instead can be saved?
The doctrine I provided is self explanatory. Please read it. There is another doctrine which I adhere to, "Judge not lest ye be judged". I don't venture into God's business. He is my judge, my conscience is clear but I await His judgement. I judge no one, not even myself.
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If this is what you're saying, I'll have to change my opinion of you at least somewhat. Christians believing they have an inside track to heaven and into God's grace, while everyone else is doomed to eternal hell cuz oops!... They missed out on Jesus, is a HUGE problem for me.
I thought you said you were born Catholic. Didn't you ever study the Catholic doctrines.
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The Catholic religion must be softening. I'm sure when I was a kid, the answer was that people born in African villages who never heard of Jesus would unfortunately be sent to hell.
I became atheist at around 13. But I can honestly tell you that I never heard that from a Catholic when I was growing up. Although I heard it plenty from Fundamentalist Protestants. When I came back to the Church, I heard it more from Catholics and it may be due to a shismatic priest named Feeney who was excommunicated for preaching that only Catholics would go to heaven:
Feeneyism is a strict interpretation of Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus associated with the Reverend Leonard Feeney, M.I.C.M. (1897-1978). Feeney had originally been a Roman Catholic priest and a member of the Jesuit order. On account of disobedience, the Jesuit order dismissed Feeney in 1949, and on 4 February 1953 the Holy Office (now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) declared him excommunicated "on account of grave disobedience to Church Authority, being unmoved by repeated warnings". Feeneyism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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I'm sure, because I remember asking my teacher Sister Alice about it and I'll never forget her answer or the look of pity on her face! Not sure how old you are, but I'm in my 40's. Back in my day, Catholicism was much stricter, gloomier, and more guilt ridden than it is now.
I'm 50. And Christianity as a whole was gloomy. It is one of the major reasons why I became atheist. Christians did not seem to know anything except "thou shalt not".
Me, I wanted to do my thing and God was in the way. So I decided He didn't exist.
I don't want to leave this message on a down beat about Christianity. After I made an effort of will to become Christian and specifically Catholic, I discovered the peace that only Jesus can give and what many people don't talk about, the joy that only Jesus can give.
Why don't people talk about it? I suppose because it is beyond words.
No, but perhaps another person's book says it's ok. Now if you're saying it's ok to believe things on unfounded evidence, how then do you deny someone of another faith this same right? You can't very well label him as irrational when your standards for belief are no different than his.
Btw- Are you really a chaplain who knows something about this (on a professional level)? If so, I think it's great that you post here. I don't know anyone very knowledgable that I can ask questions to.
When you talk about our perception not lining up with the teachings in the bible... What about biblical passages which if taken literally, would lead to what we now would consider immoral acts? Such as:
Isn't there a passage which states that if a man finds on his wedding night that the woman he is about to marry is not a virgin, he must stone her to death on her father's doorstep?
Doesn't the bible imply that if a kid disobeys his parents, it's ok to kill him?
Or that if you catch somebody working on the Sabbath day, they should be put to death?
What about the condoning of slavery in the bible? The abuse of women? Etc...
I realize reasonable people don't take these things seriously, but all these things are in the bible, are they not? So what if my perception was to take this literally and I went out and killed someone for working on the Sabbath? Would you conisder me wrong to have done so?
I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but these questions all seem off topic to me.
I have a suggestion. If you're really interested, I'm sure the Christians on this board would be willing to help Chaplain John answer them if you post them on separate topics. One at a time. That way we can discuss them thoroughly.
Our Time Is Very Precious We Only Have So Much And We Do Not Know How Much But The More Of Your Time You Give To God In Prayer And Seeking Him The More He Will Bless You.
what ive found helps is walks i like in a sorta remote area and i take walks and save time on the weekends and i walk in the back roads were not mutch cars go and it helps and just listen to the breeze and the birds
There's this rabbi who devoted his whole life to pleasing God, and he did many wonderful things to help people in need throughout his life. Now if I ask do Christians believe that this man will burn in hell for eternity because he did not accept Jesus Christ as his Savior? Go ahead and cite scripture if you must.
But if I ask how you as a Christian can accept such a hidious belief, I'm not looking for scripture! I want to know how you reconcile this fact and live with it. That's a question that requires your honest human response. Does that make any sense?[/QUOTE]
Bingo!. That is the question I want answered. And without scripture.
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