Baptism of John, “preaching the baptism of penance, unto remission of sins”
Versus
Baptism of Christ, " baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost"
On another thread concerning baptism a few interesting questions came up:
1) Did Jesus’ baptism have the same effect as John's baptism?
2) Would John’s baptism meet the requirements of your Church?
3) Was John’s baptism salvific? Would the recipients of John’s baptism need to be re-baptized?
4) Was John’s baptism related to the Old Testament TaNaKH, a Jewish immersion?
5) What are the effects of the New Testament baptism?
6) As a norm is it possible to enter heaven (the Kingdom of God) without a literal baptism?
7) What are exceptions to the norm?
8) Does baptism make the recipient a member in the body Church?
9) If the baptized individual changes denominations, is the individual re-baptized?
10) Can I have multiple baptisms? If so why? If not why?
One more question, do you see any element connecting the response to these question one to the other.
Explain why Christ Commissioned His Church to ‘go baptize’ in Matthew chapter 28? Can you explain why this is?
You’re right; always “the testimony of God is greater.” He commanded His Captains to go Baptize; and by extension, commands us to be baptized. If baptism is a meaningless symbol surly you can show how this verse is meaningless also. By all means, look to the credibility of the testimony!
JoeT
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 29:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 29:20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Joe, 1st we are all brothers and sisters, and I love you all. We are not to be denominations in Christ, but instead we are to be perfect, and have unity in Christ. We are the many members of one body, and that one body is Christ. Christ dwells in us. It is not the structured building but it is the fellowship of members that walks in the spirit.
2nd His disciple were told to go teach all nation (what are they to teach?) The gospel, the prinicple doctrine Jesus Christ, the milk for babes as Paul called it. And in teaching, the principle doctrine includes baptism with the confession of the begotten Son of God.
NOW if we review Mark 1, it is the principle doctrine being spoken. (Mark 1:1) But let us Refer (Mark 1:9 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost) Who is HE? He will baptize you!
The symbolic water washing is claimed by John the Baptist's teaching to come.. But HE, will baptize you! = It is not John ..
How else could it be written all were Baptized by the same spiritual Rock, and that Rock is Christ Jesus REFER (1 Cr 10:2-3-4 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ)
Christ is always with us. HE is THERE
unto Moses = In the mist of Moses and what was taken place, and those brought out of captivity, Christ was there with them and did baptism them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown008
Sorry, sndbay,
I have not seen anywhere in the scripture where water baptism was performed alone. Jesus went to John Baptist, Philip baptized the eunuch, etc... I do understand that it is the Spirit of God which baptize us by the Holy Spirit.
Who would baptize John the Baptist?
I am comforted in knowing Christ is always with us, and it is He who sent the HOLY SPIRIT to comfort us.
Christ leds the way, we just have to follow. Both spiritually and phyical, both bodies. Applying: ONE FAITH ONE LORD ONE BAPTISM, = (completeness) ONE GOD, and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Fred,
I don't think the Lord makes exceptions for anyone. If baptism is required for salvation, then it is required for salvation. But it isn't required......Jesus finished the work on the cross. I'm not suggesting that baptism isn't important or something the Lord wants us to do. But the bible says that salvation is of the LORD. He is the only one that can save us.
I agree with Fred on this ClassyT,
# 1 ONE FAITH
# 2 ONE LORD
# 3 ONE BAPTISM
Awareness throughtout scripture the spiritual significance of number three.
Three.Denotes completeness, as three lines complete a plane figure. Hence, three is significant of Divine perfection and completeness. The third day completes the fundamentals of creation-work. The fourth, fifth, and sixth days are the counterpart and repetition of the first, second, and third, and correspond respectively. The number, three, includes resurrection also; for on the third day the earth rose up out of the deep, and the fruit rose up out of the earth.
AND of course, the trinity of Father Son and Holy Spirit is shown in three = ONE
It takes no mans hand to baptize.. You could be led into a pool of water of your own surrendered will, to do the Will of God . No greater witness then God
You said that, concerning water baptism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
I have not seen anywhere in the scripture where water baptism was performed alone. Jesus went to John Baptist, Philip baptized the eunuch, etc... I do understand that it is the Spirit of God which baptize us by the Holy Spirit.
I said that, concerning water baptism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Who would baptize John the Baptist?
I am comforted in knowing Christ is always with us, and it is He who sent the HOLY SPIRIT to comfort us.
Christ leds the way, we just have to follow. Both spiritually and phyical, both bodies. Applying: ONE FAITH ONE LORD ONE BAPTISM, = (completeness) ONE GOD, and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
And you said that.
This tend to be more about baptism by the Holy Spirit to me, not water baptism.
This tend to be more about baptism by the Holy Spirit to me, not water baptism.
Unknown008 I am not positive about what you are asking.. but I think the question is what was the baptism of John compared to what you believe is the HOLY SPIRIT.
What we have for awareness is that scripture tells us whether it was John the Baptist of water baptism or whther it is the commanded baptism by Christ, Both are the same baptism, because both are the spiritual baptism done by the spirit of God.
Both were witnessed by heaven and earth because they are
Heaven= Father+Word+Holy Ghost, and Earth = Spirit + Water + Blood
The Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
Our Father gave record of this in Christ, and Our Father did testified that what Christ suffered in baptism, He was well pleased with. Our Father clearly testified (both) suffered baptism as the ONE baptism.
" ONE Baptism " is the spirit of God quickening the body. BECAUSE Without a good conscience toward God we could not be buried in Christ. The flesh body has to put on Christ.
(1 Cr 10:2-3-4) will confirm the same spiritual Rock was Christ in baptism, even for those before Christ's ever walked on earth.
I have not seen anywhere in the scripture where water baptism was performed alone. John the Baptist baptized Jesus, Philip baptized the eunuch, etc...
But you said that "It takes no mans hand to baptize.. "
I don't understand that because water baptism is performed by someone, by a human being, as in the examples I said previously.
Okay I know, but I ask you then WHO? WHO would baptism John the baptist? Who if you need the helping hand of man would led John into water to be baptized himself?
Or do you think John was not baptized?
And who baptized the people who followed Moses out of captivity that were in the red sea and baptized?
John’s baptism was a Mikveh. It required running water, but we don’t have any writing whether or not baptism of this type ‘required’ submersion. It seems it depended on the reason for the Mikveh.
Baptism in the Church requires both matter (water) and formula ("in the name of the Father and ...") If not then why Matt 29? Do you think that Christ was ignorant of his own Jewish faith?
Ok, I don't know my bible much, but I would think that the parents of John the Baptist would be the ones, Zechariah or Elizabeth...
About Moses, I just carried out a search, the bible does not mention who actually baptised them.
There is the verse of Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
The change that took place is shown in Acts 1:5, and probably what you are questioning.
It still remains fact that scripture tell us even when John was baptizing of water, it was the witnessed presence of God. It was Our Father who sent his servant John out as the greatest prophet, calling people to come into water to be baptism. It is all done by the hand of God, do you agree
I do understand that it is the Spirit of God which baptize us by the Holy Spirit.
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