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12 y/o girl - horrible mouth! Is close to being sent away
I tried to keep it short - skip important details. I can answer any questions. Just trust it was a bad situation and a long custody battle that crossed state lines.
My boyfriend gained custody of his 3 children roughly 7 months ago after 5 years. We've been together 2, they separated after years of arguing over her drug use. The kids are 5 & 8 year old boys and 12 year old girl. The short of it is the eldest was the primary care-giver. Left at home alone a lot. Had a series of men whom they all had to call father. Verbal abuse, neglect, that sort of thing. This past year they were separated and living with different family. The eldest was forced to wear the same outfit to school every day by her grandpa! We had been trying to prove for a year to the authorities the separation she still drew from food stamps, child support and lived in HUD housing.
Since then we have shown them a lot of things they had never done. The grand canyon, roswell, climbing mountains, plays, festivals. They literally never did anything besides sleep and school. Even the movies was a first. You would think Hot Cocoa and all curled in a blanket was like Christmas. You get the idea. The boys have blossomed in the new environment. They have caught up really quick in school, the 5 y/o didn't know his colors, shapes or letters! I am very fastidious about praising the positives, and not rewarding bad behavior. We did have to buy a lot at once, beds, clothes, and some toys for them. I don't believe they are spoiled by normal standards, but they did get a lot at once in the beginning.
The problem we are having is the eldest. From the beginning, we can not give simple instruction or praise to the boys without her chiming in with "he didnt do it right" or "you go do this now" or the one I hate most "he can't he dosn't know how". I tell you she is MURDER on these boys self esteem, like a dog to raw meat. When she enters the room they don't talk and even stiffen up. She is equally as mouthy to us.
I time-out every time she mouths, and she now calls me ma'am. But she is so awful there is no room to praise, everything has a negative comment. She is on time out more than she is off it. She cries every time saying everyone hates her and we pick on her, and the boys never get in trouble. My boyfriend has gotten to a "cut the losses" idea, says he was too late, and wants to save the boys. The situation has well spiraled.
We sat down and had a good long talk WITH her, she broke down shared her feelings, we thought we got through. The end was that she would go back to her mother if she does not correct herself within a month. It has been a week and a half and its right back at it. There was another talk yesterday she was good, then we all went to applebees for a treat, where she didn't skip a beat. She had to have the adult menu (she did not get), wouldn't stay out of others plates, the boys ate wrong, the youngest chose baby food. And of course, we all hate her when she is told to sit on her hands.
This morning she woke us up by throwing a pile of jeans on us from the dryer crying that the ones she wanted to wear are still in the washer and she can't go to school because she has nothing to wear. He is at his end. He got up, got the scissors and cut those jeans to shreds, then made her stay home. He called in work and today she is cleaning the entire house army as we speak. He says he is getting a plane ticket for her on Friday.
Consistent punishment doesn't work, she has no toys left to take away, ultimatums fail, and the 'sitting calmly and talking it out' as everyone suggests doesn't solve much, he even spanks her!
um, hello. did you pay attention to all that stuff you told us in the beginning? this kid has been through hell. she needs counseling. you can't put a 12 year old in time out and take away toys and expect her to change just like that. you said she was the main caregiver for her little brothers. that's a lot, she still a kid herself! but that doesn't mean you can go back to treating her like a little kid now. she needs to be in individual counseling and probably family counseling as well. giving up on her and sending her back to her mother now is the worst thing you two can possibly do. shame on him for giving up on his daughter. and what does she learn by him shredding her jeans?! that is just downright mean. she's expected to learn to be nicely with that as an example? after all she's learned is whatever examples her drug using mother set for so much of her life? and a grandfather who forced her to wear the same outfit everyday?
and making her sit on her hands? what is that? seriously? is she three years old? and trust me, when my abusive father made me clean the house military style, it didn't make things any better. i only hated him more. and became more hateful over all. and spanking a 12 year old girl, entirely inappropriate. what you need to do is bring in a professional, she is entirely beyond both of you. she's clearly been through too much.
btw, i have a pretty good idea of how this girl feels. my parents went through an awful divorce. i'd already been the one taking care of my siblings when they were married because my dad worked full time and my mom would just literally disappear for hours on end and not answer her cell. my dad was abusive much of the time but would at least sometime bring in people to help watch my siblings so i could take a break (on good days when he wasn't being abusive). after they got divorced my mom turned to alcohol and prescription drugs, blamed me for the divorce and alternated between simply disappearing and being passed out. my aunt and uncle finally petitioned the court and were granted guardianship of one of my brothers and me. i was in counseling for something like 3 or 4 years. and it was tough adjusting. but my aunt and uncle were determined not to give up on me. and that makes all the difference. she is not going to be able to recover over night. probably not even in a few months. she's got a tough road ahead of her. you and your bf need to decide whether you're going to be there for her now, even though for whatever reasons he wasn't before. or if he's going to give up on her.
I think that you need to back off and give the poor girl a break.
I know it's hard, because she's got such a bad mouth etc, but why continue punishing her if it doesn't work? Have you thought that punishment, particularly the physical punishment you're meting out, is just making it all worse?
The only way she knows how to get your attention is by behaving badly. She wants the care and affection that you're showing her brothers, but she doesn't know how to get it. Don't you understand? She doesn't know any other way to behave.
And, your BF. Is he a child as well?? Cutting up her jeans - now that's setting a really good example! And, spanking for a 12 year old girl is an absolute no no. It's simply not on and reflects your bad parenting techniques!
I'd suggest you all need to go to counselling immediately and your BF needs to go to parenting classes with you. You spent a bunch of money on presents and clothes, now spend some on making yourselves decent parents and treating a poor abused 12 year old with some love and compassion. It won't get better overnight, but you all need to work at it and learn how to behave differently.
I really don't appreciate the assumption that we are bad people.
Firstly, I and her father sympathize with her 100% - we are both one of the MILLIONS of bad child hood stories wandering around, one of the MILLIONS of bad childhood stories who still made a success and did it without counseling. Clearly you'r not over your problems or you wouldn't need to discuss it in such great depth to a stranger. Your not very equipped to give advice if your so tempted to put your childhood trama's on this girl who GOT OUT of a bad situation. If so, you wouldn't so ignore the 2 younger children escaped from the same situation and are still being mentally abused.
We did not shower gifts on them. We bought the the necessities to function because they came with none. My bf is not a child, he is well past fed up. There is a difference between disrespectful and crossing the line. If anything i think the problem is we "Overlook" and "Let Go" some of the bad behavior in attempt to continue enjoying a good time. And while I don't condone spanking, The girl did deserve a good pat on the butt the few times she got them, for the physical harm and marks she left on her brothers. Mind you - spank on the butt, not beating her with a belt. And what part of hot cocoa in blankets, and family trips to the grand canyon translates to not giving the girl love? Really. I thought if I came here I woudln't get all the brain-dead responses like I did at Yahoo Questions.
Yes I made her sit on her hands. Unless you know of where Applebee's keeps their time out she will continue to sit on her hands or keep her hands out of other plates and nasty comments to herself.
Counseling is the only brilliant suggestion. I thought a warm loving environment would be enough. But for the rest, I regret even asking, I can't believe how judgmental, and how far you twisted my question around. By the way, we talked to her more last night and got to the bottom of it.
She thought coming out here it would be just her and her dad. When her parents were still together the boys were too young or not born yet, and they bonded very closely. Basically she thought she would be the only child again, and is going through the "I have a sibling now" struggle all over again. We deduced that all the picking at the boys, is both anger that they exist and get daddys attention. The framing and making them cry when we are not in the room is to get them in trouble so he wouldn't like them and love her. After we talked we decided he will spend more one on one time with each of them, instead of so much family activity. He will also make sure he talks with her about her past to get that stuff out. ANd make it known to her in an understandable way that her bad childhood dosn't need to translate into a lifetime of victim mentality. And that she can still have a normal life filled with happiness.
Thanks again for your assumptions. See you - oh I'm not coming back.
Going to the grand canyon does not represent love..it represents a family trip.
This poor girl has been in a terrible situation for 12 years. You can't expect her to change in a matter of months. She has had to be the parent and she doesn't know any other way.
I can see that you guys are really trying here to give the children a childhood that they have never had, and I commend you for that. Not many people care enough. But you have to remember that this child has been abused and/or neglected for most of her life. She really does need counseling.
Why don't you read your original question as if you did not write it. What kind of advice would YOU give to that parent?
i hadn't been assuming that you were bad people. based on the poor parenting examples you gave, it is reasonable to conclude that you are just simply not equipped to handle such a traumatized child.
and no, her causing physical harm does not in any way justify her receiving physical harm as punishment back. you think that hitting her will teach her not to hit her brothers? do you also think 2+2=10? children learn a lot by example. what example does hitting her set?
well isn't that just great that he's fed up. he's her parent. he doesn't get to get fed up, say "i tried, oh well" and still get a good parent award.
guess what she's going to remember of her time spent with you at the rate you're going. its not going to be hot cocoa and going to the grand canyon. it's going to be her being spanked and made to sit on her hands (you think she's going to forget public humiliation? think again.), and her father throwing a tantrum in response to her tantrum and shredding her favorite jeans.
at first, i'd thought you really were good people that were in over your heads and needed professional help to guide your good intentions. but your stubborn, defensive response makes me wonder. that's great you were able to overcome your bad childhood without counseling. but i have no idea why that makes you think she can.
and yeah, i totally admit i still struggle with my childhood some days. but i talk openly about it because i don't want other people, other children to have to go through the same things i went through. and i have no trouble telling a perfect stranger every detail if there's some chance that it might help a child out there struggling. part of creating change is creating awareness. i'll tell the whole world if it helps a child or two.
for this little girl's sake, i hope you do come back.
I am surprised the court did not order therapy for the parents, in order to educate themselves in how to cope with such a troubled child, as a condition of custody.
You can't throw a kid into 'normal', when their normal was no-frills survival. Those instincts and traits that kept them alive and functioning, are not understood when the parents now think she has some sort of choice in not allowing her past to affect a happy future. She should be grateful!!!! Good grief.
These parents are so full of themselves and their abilities and judgments, yet lack even the slightest understanding of how severe abuse affects a child, particularly during the formative years. They have replaced the abuse she came with, with more abuse. It is abusive to humiliate, shred clothing, 'correct', and discipline, without understanding and knowlege of where this kid is coming from.
Totally and completely innapropriate.
IF she comes back, and can get off her high horse, and IF the child is a priority, she will run, not walk, not think about, but RUN to the nearest family therapist that deals with families and disturbed children who have an extreme background in abuse.
Ultimatum to go back to her mother.........threatening to kick her out...........unbelievable, totally innapropriate, ignorant parents.
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