12 y/o girl - horrible mouth! Is close to being sent away
I tried to keep it short - skip important details. I can answer any questions. Just trust it was a bad situation and a long custody battle that crossed state lines.
My boyfriend gained custody of his 3 children roughly 7 months ago after 5 years. We've been together 2, they separated after years of arguing over her drug use. The kids are 5 & 8 year old boys and 12 year old girl. The short of it is the eldest was the primary care-giver. Left at home alone a lot. Had a series of men whom they all had to call father. Verbal abuse, neglect, that sort of thing. This past year they were separated and living with different family. The eldest was forced to wear the same outfit to school every day by her grandpa! We had been trying to prove for a year to the authorities the separation she still drew from food stamps, child support and lived in HUD housing.
Since then we have shown them a lot of things they had never done. The grand canyon, roswell, climbing mountains, plays, festivals. They literally never did anything besides sleep and school. Even the movies was a first. You would think Hot Cocoa and all curled in a blanket was like Christmas. You get the idea. The boys have blossomed in the new environment. They have caught up really quick in school, the 5 y/o didn't know his colors, shapes or letters! I am very fastidious about praising the positives, and not rewarding bad behavior. We did have to buy a lot at once, beds, clothes, and some toys for them. I don't believe they are spoiled by normal standards, but they did get a lot at once in the beginning.
The problem we are having is the eldest. From the beginning, we can not give simple instruction or praise to the boys without her chiming in with "he didnt do it right" or "you go do this now" or the one I hate most "he can't he dosn't know how". I tell you she is MURDER on these boys self esteem, like a dog to raw meat. When she enters the room they don't talk and even stiffen up. She is equally as mouthy to us.
I time-out every time she mouths, and she now calls me ma'am. But she is so awful there is no room to praise, everything has a negative comment. She is on time out more than she is off it. She cries every time saying everyone hates her and we pick on her, and the boys never get in trouble. My boyfriend has gotten to a "cut the losses" idea, says he was too late, and wants to save the boys. The situation has well spiraled.
We sat down and had a good long talk WITH her, she broke down shared her feelings, we thought we got through. The end was that she would go back to her mother if she does not correct herself within a month. It has been a week and a half and its right back at it. There was another talk yesterday she was good, then we all went to applebees for a treat, where she didn't skip a beat. She had to have the adult menu (she did not get), wouldn't stay out of others plates, the boys ate wrong, the youngest chose baby food. And of course, we all hate her when she is told to sit on her hands.
This morning she woke us up by throwing a pile of jeans on us from the dryer crying that the ones she wanted to wear are still in the washer and she can't go to school because she has nothing to wear. He is at his end. He got up, got the scissors and cut those jeans to shreds, then made her stay home. He called in work and today she is cleaning the entire house army as we speak. He says he is getting a plane ticket for her on Friday.
Consistent punishment doesn't work, she has no toys left to take away, ultimatums fail, and the 'sitting calmly and talking it out' as everyone suggests doesn't solve much, he even spanks her!
something about sitting on the hands just seems so, i don't know, medieval? 18th century? i don't even know. like something awful that was thought up before anyone knew about child psychology or prohibiting cruel and unusual punishments. really, what can be gained from that? now she's not going to remember nice family dinners. she's going to remember being forced to sit on her hands.
and, another story i don't mind sharing from my childhood...my parents took me to hawaii when i was little. hawaii! what an awesome memory that should be. guess what part i remember most clearly. the part where my dad got mad at me while we were playing miniature golf, spanked me half a dozen times, then threw me, yes, literally threw me, into a puddle and made me site there as punishment while all the other families walked by.
all of the cruel punishments are only further traumatizing this poor little girl.
While we all think that this is harsh punishment for a girl who has had a hard time already. Let us not forget that these people are trying to do what they think is right, no matter how wrong it may be.
I feel the same as all of you do, but I see that this woman and her husband are honestly trying, but don't fathom the depth of the little girl's psyche.
They see the boys who are behaving like angels and are expecting the girl to just appreciate what she has been given.
I see them trying, or at least trying to try.
Yes, what they did may have been harsh, extremely harsh, but this woman came to us looking for help and all we did was bash her rather than pointing her in a better direction.
Yes, she was defensive, but we came at her with our guns drawn so to speak.
We are trying to protect this girl, I know, but this woman really could use some help. Isn't that what we are here for after all?
had to spread the rep again j_9, but thanks for the reminder.
elise, this little girl needs help. more than you can give her. and it's not because you're a bad person or a bad parent. you can give her all of the love in the world, but she's been through too much for that alone to help her. try to put yourself in her shoes. try to imagine what it is like to try going from a lifetime of abuse to suddenly having loving parents who care. even though it's for the best, her world has been turned upside down. that can be overwhelming for anyone, but especially an abused 12 year old whose hormones are just starting to go all over the place.
being the oldest is an especially hard role. she went from being responsible for her little brothers (and i wonder if she also had to be the one protecting them in the past), to suddenly being allowed to be a kid again herself. can you imagine that? going from having to be completely responsible to suddenly, having very few responsibilities. what would you do with yourself if you were in her shoes? she probably doesn't even know what to do.
You have to realize that when you put a question on this site, you get what you get. You have to take the "bad" (reality), with the "good" ( what you WANT to hear).
Only you and your boyfriend know what's really going on in your house.
I recommend you getting these books: " Have A New Kid By Friday", and " "How To Bring Up Kids Without Tearing Them Down" by Dr. Kevin Leman.
I'm pretty sure that you came back to read the comments, so please help this child get better. She basically was their MOTHER for so long that she doesn't know how to NOT discipline the boys.
What you do now could very well shape her for the future. Don't give up on her now, and don't send her back to her mother. That will be an admission of defeat.
And by the way, what the hell does cutting up a child's clothes prove ?
I agree with the counseling, for all of you. Good luck.
Thanks again for your assumptions. See you - oh I'm not coming back.
I see the problem to be YOUR attitude, not the child's.
The other problem I see is that you are in a live-in situation with your boyfriend. He isn't your husband. You are not the children's stepmother. I would not allow an outsider, which you are, to discipline my children, particularly harshly.
There was a similar thread a week or so ago - what do stepparents do? My late husband and I had a clear understanding concerning his children. I was their stepmother but they were his children. He consulted with me but I did not simply assume I was going to raise them.
The punishment you use is excessive and Child Welfare should step in.
I see you are gone forever - or moved to other threads, either/or.
I see that you are online right now and I want to get this to you.... it may have been said and I will continue reading but you can't threaten her with sending her back to her mothers. Love is not conditional and it just very well may be that she wants to go back to her moms. I'll add more later, but I have to read the whole posting.
JudyKayTee agrees: First, the father is not married to OP; second, I see jealousy toward the child on the part of the OP. And children are hard work, particularly when they aren't yours.
Thanks for the public slap in the face Judy. You should have just given me a reddie since that's actually what you really wanted to do.
Sorry, I missed the part about the OP not being married. We all goof once in a while, or are you perfect all the time?
You may see jealousy on the part of the OP, but that is strictly your opinion. While I don't agree with what has been done here, we don't need to be so harsh as to judge a person without knowing all of the circumstances. We aren't there, we can only read what she wrote.
You are telling me children are hard work? Really? No way!! You have to be kidding me!! I guess I missed out on all that hard work raising 4 of my own. Not to mention that I'm STILL raising two as the other two are out of the house and married. Guess I missed out on all of the heartache and worry while my second born was in Iraq. Guess I missed all the hard work while I was raising the youngest two while in nursing school full time and working full time. Guess they just raised themselves during this period of time. Yup, I missed out on my youngest going from 18 months (when I started school) to 6 years old (when I graduated), I didn't do any of the work then.
No, I haven't raised other people's children, but I have worked my arse off to raise the ones I have with very little help from their father. Days went by without sleep or food in my stomach.
Judy, I consider you a friend, but this was really low. Rarely do I argue with other members of the site, but this one I couldn't let go. Especially after you ignored my PM about this.
Oh, and while we are on it...I am on hour number 27 without sleep so far. Had to take care of a sick 7 year old yesterday AND work an exhausting 12 hour shift last night. My 16 year old has cheer practice and my husband is at work. So, guess who is home watching the 7 year old. You guessed it...ME, and I have another 12 hour shift tonight as well as Sunday and Monday nights. So, Judy, don't tell me children aren't hard work. I have my work cut out for me.
Maybe you need to take a step back and see that sometimes we have to give the benefit of the doubt when people are asking for our help here. If we continue to berate people we wouldn't have a premium Q&A site, now would we?
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