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gls347 · Jun 17, 2010, 11:37 AM

I have a 92 honda civic LX 1.5l with a crank-no-start condition

The CEL comes on and stays on. The main relay is not clicking. The K-test showed 5 volts (I am assuming my ECU is good). All of the fuses under dash and hood look good. I don't hear the fuel pump come on.

I replaced the main relay. The igniter tested good at autozone. The coil primary tested bad (secondary was good)... I replaced that. The distributer black/yellow wire has power to the igniter.

Any ideas? I am going to go back and double check the fuses with a volt-meter.

gls347 · Jun 17, 2010, 11:39 AM

I forgot to mention that I did also have a friend crank the engine while I looked into the oil cap and there was cranking (I am assuming my timing belt is still ok)

TxGreaseMonkey · Jun 17, 2010, 12:23 PM

. Test the under hood ACG (ALT) (S) fuse.

. Clean the main ECM ground, located on the thermostat housing.

. Test the ignition switch for wear, pitting, or melting.

gls347 · Jun 17, 2010, 02:26 PM

Thank you for the quick reply.

Where do I find the under hood ACG (ALT) (S) fuse? I didn't see anything like this on the fuse box cover.

I did notice when I was checking the fuses with the volt meter that I wasn't getting a 12v read off some of the fuses under the dash. I replaced them (they weren't blown) and still no read. I'm not sure what that means- perhaps I'm not getting power to the under dash fusebox?

Also I noticed there is an under-dash ignition relay which I have not tested yet- I have a spare 12v relay I can use to try if you think that is worth looking into.

TxGreaseMonkey · Jun 17, 2010, 03:08 PM

The ACG fuse is likely in the upper right hand corner of the fuse box, along with the SRS fuses. Just make sure every fuse is good. If you don't have an air bag, it may be Fuse #12. If you do have an air bag, it may be Fuse#24. If this fuse is missing, the CEL will stay on and the car won't start. It's a really crucial fuse.

Since you are not getting power to many of the fuses, the ignition switch may be bad. Here's how to remove it:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post224652

gls347 · Jun 18, 2010, 12:21 PM

All of the fuses tested and working. I was about to begin removal of the ignition switch, but I saw a relay on the under-dash fuse box which I didn't know what it was for. I switched it out for my rear-defroster relay (same voltage) and the car went through the CEL and main relay clicking procedure and started right up.

Unfortunately the car died 2 minutes later as I was pulling out onto the street.

I took the relay out and tested for conductivity (I don't know how you test these 4 prong 12 volt relays) and it was showing the same readings of the working relays so I assumed it was not whatever relay that was.

I'm not sure if any of that information means anything. At least I can assume most of/all of the parts after the main relay are working?

I will remove the ignition switch tomorrow when I have time off work.

gls347 · Jun 19, 2010, 11:24 AM

I opened up my ignition switch, this is what it looks like.

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I am guessing this is my problem.

TxGreaseMonkey · Jun 19, 2010, 11:39 AM

Yes, that's likely the problem. Try cleaning the contacts with #240 abrasive cloth and coat with dielectric grease, prior to just replacing the switch. It requires some attention, but it doesn't look real bad--it may be salvageable.

gls347 · Jun 19, 2010, 11:42 AM

I just found out they only offer this part WITH the lock assembley... The cheapest one I've found is $225 :O

I will definitely try the cleaning/dielectric grease. Will I need to re-solder the connection in the top picture?

TxGreaseMonkey · Jun 19, 2010, 12:00 PM

From what I can see, they look fine.

gls347 · Jun 19, 2010, 01:49 PM

After cleaning and applying dielectric grease I am getting the same result.

I tried to test the ignition switch my using the volt meter on the back-side of the switch where all the connections are soldered and each connection showed 12.2 volts, With the exception of the black/white wire which was 0 unless I was cranking the engine at which point it went up to 10.8 volts.

I would just guess that this could be the problem, BUT- I am still not getting the check engine light to go off when the switch it turned to position II and the main relay/fuel pump are not going on yet. So could this lack of voltage to the position III switch just be because my CEL is not going out and main-relay not kicking in.

I re-did the K-test and got a 4.9 volts (was 5.0 when this problem occurred), can I still assume my ECU is OK?

I am definitely learning a lot about my vehicle, and I appreciate all of your help and suggestions. Do you have any idea what I should look into now?

TxGreaseMonkey · Jun 19, 2010, 02:29 PM

Fuses are good, main relay is new, and the ECM passed the K-Test on multiple occasions. There must be something wrong with the ignition switch, which is causing the CEL to stay on. The wear, evident in Picture #2, must be too much. The center solder joint also looks suspicous. Look at them with a critical eye and see if you agree.

Make sure you cleaned the main ECM ground, located on the thermostat housing.

gls347 · Jun 19, 2010, 03:07 PM

I will try cleaning the ECM ground. Am I missing something obvious, perhaps a faulty gas cap? Or would that not be involved with this problem?

TxGreaseMonkey · Jun 19, 2010, 04:10 PM

I don't think you are overlooking anything. The gas cap doesn't affect the problem you are having.

The CEL only stays on if there's a problem with the fuses, ECM, main relay, or ignition switch.

gls347 · Jun 19, 2010, 04:49 PM

The dealer tells me they only make the 92 ignition switch WITH the locking mechanism and it is 300 bucks.

Autozone, oriley's, and napa all tell me the same thing- on the 92 they only have the switch with the locking cylinder and it is around $230-250.

It seems like the 93-95's have the switch for 30 bucks, would there be a possibility of one of these working?

Are there any other tests I can do to know for sure that this is the part needing replacement?

TxGreaseMonkey · Jun 19, 2010, 05:29 PM

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any. Through process of elimination, however, everything points to the ignition switch. Look into buying a replacement at a salvage yard.

gls347 · Jun 20, 2010, 01:03 AM

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Here is a cleaned-up look. It seemed good to me, so I tried testing continuity from the inner nodes down to the prongs and everything seemed to work correctly. I also tested continuity from the 5p connector prongs to the 7p connector prongs with the key in all positions, and it seemed like I was getting good continuity in each of the locations that made sense to me.

I'm to the point where I WANT this part to be bad, but it just doesn't seem to be working incorrectly.

I re-tried the K-test and was getting 6-7 volts... I'm not sure if that is normal so I opened up my ECU and it looks brand new, with no signs of heat/moisture damage. I wasn't exactly sure how to do the confirmation test.

Tomorrow I am going to check the wires behind the important fuses and hope for some extremely burned and obviously failed wires.

TxGreaseMonkey · Jun 20, 2010, 04:50 AM

6-7 reference volts is definitely not good. That raises the spectre of the ECM being the culprit, especially considering the age of your Civic. Fuses and ECM are the usual causes for the CEL staying on. It looks like you did a great job of cleaning up the ignition switch. My focus would shift to the ECM. Variations in the K-Test is prima facie evidence that the ECM is bad.

You get the award for the best photos ever on this site--very nice job.