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    OldFox's Avatar
    OldFox Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #1

    Dec 27, 2005, 04:27 PM
    93' Accord does not want to start
    Greetings to all,
    To start with, I just want to say that I have read the other threads and did what I could but could not fix the problem.

    I have a 93' Accord. It has a ~177K Km on its odometer. It runs very smoothly and normally starts with one engine crank. No problems on the highway, can be easily driven to ~150 Km/hr without any headaches.

    I had the first starting problem about a month ago. The engine cranks normally but would not start.
    After excessive cranking and pumping on the gas pedal, it started but with a very rough idle then the idle went back to normal within 20 sec, and since then the car got back to normal and can be started with one crank as normal.
    Yesterday morning it did not start again. Here is what I did so far:
    The Spark check:
    I pulled out one of the ignition wires and held it touching the engine with a spark plug at the end and there was a spark when my little son cranked the engine. I repeated the same check on another ignition wire and it passed successfully.

    The fuel test:
    I switched on the ignition without cranking the engine, I heard the fuel pump noise and the click under the dashboard at the end (coming from the main relay, I presume). Having no fuel pressure gauge, I could not tell whether the pressure is adequate or not.
    The is no fuel smell and no black smoke.
    Could the main relay be still faulty even though I can hear the click under the dashboard?
    Is there an easy way to visually check the fuel pressure? I know on GM cars, there is a valvel on the fuel tray that can be pressed to check the fuel pressure (similar to the tire valve).
    Excessive cranking and pedal pumping did not work this time. I added the gasline antifreeze in case the fuel got frozen even though the temp is not that cold (~ +2 C), but that did not help.
    Error Codes:
    No warning/engine check lights are showing on the dashboard.
    Any guidance on how to get these error codes on the 93' accord and to proceed.

    Thanks in advance and best regards to all,

    OldFox
    CroCivic91's Avatar
    CroCivic91 Posts: 729, Reputation: 23
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    #2

    Dec 27, 2005, 05:25 PM
    First of all, I want to thank you for explaining the situation with much detail.

    Actually the main relay can still be faulty if you hear a click after the fuel pump. What main relay does is it gives the power to the fuel pump before you start the car, and it powers up the ECU. It may happen that the part that's controlling the fuel pump is working, while the part that powers up the ECU doesn't work.

    There is a link in the FAQ to the page that explains you EXACTLY what happens with your Main Relay. You might want to check it out to understand it fully.

    Other than that, the only thing I would suggest is a broken timing belt, but since you get sparks on all spark plug wires, that means that the rotor inside the distributor is turning, and it is turned by the camshaft which is rotated by timing belt. So that rules it out. So, you have fuel, you have spark, you have a working timing belt... perhaps the timing belt jumped a tooth? Can you get a timing light and check your timing?

    Anyway, to get back to the main relay thing. It is really a cheap do it yourself project to get the main relay out, resolder the joints and put it back in. You cannot lose anything (if you can solder) other than perhaps one hour of time. If I were you - I'd try it first, since it's cheap.
    OldFox's Avatar
    OldFox Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Dec 29, 2005, 02:45 PM
    Many Thanks for all the info. Here is the current status:

    A - I took out the main relay and performed a full test procedure as described in the manual and it passed all the tests successfully.
    I reintalled the main relay and tried again but with no luck as expected.

    B - I cleaned the distributor cab internal contacts that receive the spark from the rotoras well as the rotor end. There was some build of scales but it all got cleaned. Cranked the engine again, no luck, even though I checked again and there was spark.

    c- I turned on the ignition switch and heard the humming of the fuel pump and the main relay click. With the fuel pressure regulator still connected, I loosened the fuel service bolt (near the fuel pressure regulator) and there is no fuel pressure at all even though the ignition switch is still on. Is this normal? I expected that there should be fuel pressure even though the engine was not cranked.

    d- When the engine was cranked for a couple of seconds, there was a little fountain of fuel ( ~ 3 inches high) coming from the service bolt hole. Having no fuel pressure gauge I could not tell whether the fuel pressure was ~ 30 psi or much less.

    e- I tightened the service bolt back in place and cranked the engine a couple of seconds, then took out spark plug #1. The plug was wet with fuel.

    I feel that I could be the injectors or their control system is not working?

    Any thoughts on what to do next?

    I tried to purchase a fuel injection pressure gauge set but the ones I found did not have the Honda adapter. Would the dealer sell this adapter?

    Thanks in advance and best regards,

    OldFox
    CroCivic91's Avatar
    CroCivic91 Posts: 729, Reputation: 23
    Senior Member
     
    #4

    Dec 29, 2005, 04:39 PM
    Well, I'd say you're getting fuel, since the spark plugs are wet with fuel.

    Let's get back to your question about checking error codes. You check them by doing this:
    Make sure key is out of ignition switch.
    Look near the ECU and find a 2 pin connector (there may be "data link connector" or "DLC" written on it). Connect it's 2 pins with a piece of wire.
    Put the key in and turn it to "II".
    Count the error codes on your dashboard's "malfunction indicator lamp".
    Long flash means 10, short flash means 1.
    2 different error codes are separated by a long pause.

    When you get your error codes, find an online list of Honda's OBD-1 error code list and find your errors.
    gaffa5's Avatar
    gaffa5 Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Jan 3, 2006, 11:55 AM
    Check your ignition coil. It sounds as if you were getting current intermittently.
    OldFox's Avatar
    OldFox Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #6

    Jan 5, 2006, 02:24 PM
    Greetings to all,

    Many thanks for all the replies.
    I tried the self diagnostics but got no error codes.
    Then when the ingition wires were sprayed with oil and the engine cranked, I noticed a strong sprak leak from the wire connecting the coil to the distributor. It seems that the intermittent leak was the reason.

    I checked the Honda dealer for the ingition wires set, and it seems to be a bit costly ~$95 CAD.
    I have been told to use the NGK brand which is almost half the price?
    Any recommendations for the ignition wires make?

    Thanks and best regards.
    CroCivic91's Avatar
    CroCivic91 Posts: 729, Reputation: 23
    Senior Member
     
    #7

    Jan 5, 2006, 05:38 PM
    Anybody that ever raced with Honda engines will tell you that the best way to go would be OEM wires. However, they will also say that the next best thing would be NGK wires.

    So you just have to see for yourself what you want/can buy. They are both good choices.
    gaffa5's Avatar
    gaffa5 Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #8

    Jan 5, 2006, 05:56 PM
    Spark Plug Leads
    With the present market conditions, I would advise you not to worry about brands. Most of the generic types are manufactured by the same people, but branding allows them to sell at a higher price. The interesting thing is that their profit margins are higher on the generic type. Go with price, you have nothing to lose.

    Peace

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