Hello to everyone!

I feel very lucky to find this excellent forum!

First of all I would like to apologize for my poor English which is not my mother language.

I've read the FAQs and stickies, but I would appreciate if you could make some things clearer to me, since I have problems understanding a few of the advices.

But let me introduce myself.

I am an electronics engineer, living and working in Cyprus (the South/Greek part) and I am a huge Honda fan.

I bought one year ago a Honda Civic 93 (92-95 model) LSI (with the sunroof). The condition of the car was excellent at that time, like a brand new. I am the second owner and when I bought it, it had 120.000 miles on it.

One year after, I've made another 20.000 miles with it and especially this last 2 months the car started braking apart :-(

In just two months, I had to change the radiator (the original broke), the water pump, the timing belt twice, because the first time after a few miles the ruleman(gear?) of the timing belt broke and needed replacement, the battery and finally these small metal bars that connect the steering wheel with the front wheels of the car (don't know the english name).

Also, I think the catalytic converter needs replacement, because in low rpm (below 1500) the exhaust makes a very loud cracking noise which disappears when I accelerate.

Now, about my problem, which is of course belongs to the infamous category "My Honda Civic won't start".

I don't have real problem at this time, it only happens occasionally, but when it happens it's a real pain in the butt.

The "won't start" problem falls in 2 categories.

1) When the car is not used for a day or two, when I try to start it, the car makes a noise like the battery ran out. I turn the key and the car makes just a "voom" noise for less than a second and stops. After a few tries the car finally starts with a very "lifeless" sound.

This problem started a few days ago and I and the mechanic thought that my battery was dead. We replaced the battery with a new one, but the problem stays.

2) When I have driven a lot (I drive about 60 miles every day) and stop to a shop for a few minutes, I always turn off my car. When I return to my car, the car starts immediately when I turn the key, faster than when the engine is cold, but with a very "lifeless" sound. Now, this problem was happening from the first time I bought my car, but since the engine started always, I didn't mind the "lifeless" sound".

But the last days (same days with problem 1), when I return to my car after the quick stop, the car doesn't want to start:

I put the key and turn it to position II. The "Engine Check" light turns ON and after a few seconds it turns off, while at the same time I hear the usual humming noise (I think it's the sound of the fuel pump). Also I hear the relay clicking once or twice, together with the "Engine Check" light. All these are completely normal and haven't changed.

But when I turn the key, the car doesn't start. All the sounds are completely normal when I turn the key (the "gr gr gr gr gr" sound), but the car doesn't start. And the "Engine Check" light turns ON and stays ON until I turn the key back to position I. Eventually, after many tries and after leaving the car for a few minutes to relax, it will start.

This is my problem and because I've spent a lot of money the last two months on the car, I would be grateful if you could help me finding out the problem and perhaps fixing it myself.

I am a very capable electronics engineer, but my knowledge falls short on cars.

I've read the FAQs, and the first thing that you suggest is finding out the Error Code. Now, to read the Error Code, do I need to short these pins that you mention, or I can just turn the key in position II and look at the red light?

If I have to short these 2 pins, where do I find them? I am aware of the fuse box that is close to the steering wheel. Are the pins there? Or they are near the red light, which is located in this metal box under the carpet in the passenger's seat?

Thanks in advance for your help and again sorry for my poor English

txgreasemonkey

Have you checked your Haynes Manual, to see what it looks like?

littlehonda

Yes, I checked it, and it looks exactly the same.

But, there is no 3-pin connector next to it, and the place I found it is different from the place you suggest.

In Cyprus, cars are the same with Japanese and the wheel is on the opposite side, so everything is placed in the opposite side from the European and US etc etc cars.

So, the connector that I found, is kept in place with blue tape and that is the only similarity with your description.

So, the most probable thing is that this connector is not the one we want, even if it's the only two-pin connector that I found.

Tomorrow I'll do a thorough search under the dash, since I haven't looked in the places that you suggest.

txgreasemonkey

Ok.

txgreasemonkey

Read section H on ignition switch replacement:

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-tr...tml#post224652

littlehonda

Hello txgreasemonkey.

It's been some time since my last update, but unfortunately I had to travel abroad for business purposes.

I removed the ignition switch, didn't dissasmble it, but the cables and their contancts seem just fine.

I finally discovered the SCC connector! It was above the ECU, hidden very well and it was difficult to pull it out.

I checked for Error Codes.

Only one code appeared all the time: 16 = Fuel Injector

Now, since my last update, I went my car for service and I also replaced the catalytic convertor and the exchaust.

I saw some increase in performance but nothing remarkable.

(I found the Error Code after I went my car for service, so they didn't check the injection system.)

But the problem continues and it even got worse:

In the morning the car starts really hard, like the battery is dead and also, whenever the engine is warm, the car don't want to start but it's exactly the opposite with the morning's situation: Now the battery seems alive, the starter works but the engine doesn't want to start.

Could it be an injection problem?

I spoke to a Honda mechanic in Greece (I live in Cyprus) and he is 100% certain that the problem is with the main relay and not with the injection.

Well, I am confused.


PS: I read in your maintenance guide that a well-cared Honda can last for up to 350.000 miles. But, if you do all the proper maintenance, what happens and the car won't last for more than 350K?

littlehonda

Update 2:

You know, you should become an official Honda mechanic/manager or something like that.

I searched more in your guides and you mention exactly that:

That when the engine is not starting when warm and the ECU gives ERROR CODE 16, the first thing we have to check/replace/fix is the Main Relay.


Because the link that you provide for fixing the Main Relay doesn't work, I googled a little and found the below guides:

http://techauto.tripod.com/mainrelay.htm

Honda Main Relays


So, I removed my Main Relay, pulled it out from the plastic enclosure and re-soldered all the contacts. Some of the contacts didn't seem very strong.

I re-soldered all of them.

Now, I'll wait to see if the following hours/days the problem occurs again.

If it occurs, I'll go buy a new Main Relay.

I'll post again tomorrow to tell you how the car behaves with the resoldered Main Relay.

txgreasemonkey

Glad for the update. I was wondering how you were doing. Look forward to hearing from you.

With a Code 16, start the engine and listen for a clicking sound coming from each fuel injector. A mechanic's stethoscope is ideal, but not necessary. If you find an injector that doesn't click, turn the ignition switch OFF, disconnect its 2P connector, and measure the resistance between the 2 terminals of the injector. Is there 10 to 13 ohms? If not, replace the injector.

What were the results of the K-Test?

littlehonda

Hi again.

I am still at work, so I didn't had a chance to check the injectors (I re-soldered the main relay on my break for lunch).

The K-Test results were OK. But I didn't do the confirmation test. I only checked the voltage on the MAP connector.

edit: In your guides I didn't find something about the injectors. Where do I locate them and how do I remove them?

I know of the black box behind the engine which says on it "Dual Point Programmable Injection System)

Are the injectors in there?

BananaPie

Your English is fantastic, by the way.

txgreasemonkey

An injector is located 3.5" behind each spark plug. They have an internal solenoid that sometimes fails. Easy access. You will see a 2P connector going to each injector.