Hello,

I have a 92 civic dx manual with 188k miles
My son drove it to School had it towed home.
The engine cranks over but it won’t start.
I’m not getting fuel over to the fuel rail.
I have no pressure.
I got no problem codes.
Check engine light never came on.

I Checked and replaced fuel pump relay no fix.
I Checked and replaced fuel pump no fix.
I checked and replaced ICM along with Coil no fix.
I replaced all these parts because the car is over 13 years ald and I've never really had any problems with it.
I plan on keeping this car for another 10 years or so Hondas are great cars.

What I’m I missing here guys?

Thanks,

TxGreaseMonkey

I suspect the voltage going from your ECM to the MAP sensor is the problem. Check for 5v. going to the MAP sensor's reference wire (+) and ground. It's probably a fraction of a volt, indicating the ECM is failing. If the signal wire from the MAP sensor is real low, you won't get spark and the fuel system will shut down. This is the KEY sensor on Hondas and a major design flaw, in my opinion. They should have designed a more fault tolerant electrical system. The real test is to turn the ignition switch OFF, disconnect the D harness to the computer, turn the ignition switch ON, and measure the voltage between computer pins D19(+) and D21(-). If there is less than approximately 5 v., then substitute a known good ECM. If you have approximately 5 v. between D19 and D21, then repair an open between the ECM and YEL/GRN reference wire going to the MAP sensor. Odds are your computer has failed and it's time to replace it. MAP sensor failure is another possibility, as well. Both are easy to check out.

In return for the help, let me know the ultimate solution.

civicdx92

TxGreaseMonkey

The odds are your MAP sensor test confirmed your ECM is bad. By the way, the check engine light staying on and no codes being thrown are characteristics of this problem. Checking the voltage at the ECM only confirms that you do not have an open between the ECM and the MAP sensor. Honda wants about $850 for a new ECM. I suggest going to O'Reilly Auto Parts and buying an A1 Cardone remanufactured ECM, with a lifetime warranty, for around $260. I'm certain this will solve your problem.

ECMs are nothing more than "power transistors," whose job is to supply the proper voltage to a host of sensors, under constantly varying conditions. Some websites bogusly claim the odds of a Honda ECM going bad are virtually zero. Don't believe it for a minute. When you remove your ECM, disconnecting the negative battery terminal first, look at the heat discoloration on the metal covers. You will observe a spiral blue pattern. ECMs don't have fan motors to cool them and, to make matters worse, are covered by carpeting. Heat, vibration, and shorts reduce their lives. You did well getting 188,000 miles out of your ECM. Once you replace it, your car will fire right up, run like a top, and the check engine light will go out. Most Honda technicians are in the dark when it comes to diagnosing the situation you encountered. They don't understand the vital significance of MAP sensors in Hondas. They are the single most important transducer in these cars. If they don't get the proper voltage, your ignition and fuel systems shut down. You will have just saved yourself a lot of money and learned some valuable information about trouble-shooting your car. It's all in the diagnosis, not in "replacing and playing." Too many main relays, fuel pumps, ICMs, and coils are being unnecessarily replaced for a "won't start situation." Even the Honda Shop Manual did not include this test for this situation. Spread the word and help others.

Please keep me posted with what happens.

TxGreaseMonkey

So what did you end up doing?

civicdx92

Well I ended up purchasing a used ECM from my local junkyard $125 from a 95 civic.
I would like to thank you for all you great input, I would not had been able to figuire it out with out your help.
THanks,

TxGreaseMonkey

Your posting makes my day. Thanks. I was really interested in your situation and I'm glad you were able to fix it so reasonably. You're a good dad and I'm sure your son appreciates your effort.

kean

good day txgreasemonkey,

i have the same problem as civicdx92.

i only get more or less 2V on D19 and D21 of the ECM(tested that while the ECM was unbolted from the body of the car, i dont know if there will be a grounding issue). i checked the map sensor pin connector and it gave me the same reading (ECM was unbloted from the body).

i suspect my ECM is bad also, but sometimes it does work!
after several times of turning the ignition key back and forth sometimes the CEL goes out and the engine will start ok.

so i isolated any problem with distributor.

i had my mitsuba relay resoldered, and i can hear it click.

is my ECM bad? i would want to change it but the OEM is quite expensive and i doubt the reliability of a used ECM because it might perform just like mine?

please help

thank you in advance.

TxGreaseMonkey

kean, I'm sure your ECM is bad. Try and buy a remanufactured ECM with a lifetime warranty. You can buy a Cardone ECM from O'Reilly Auto Parts, with a lifetime warranty, for $293.99 in the U.S. Other outfits sell Cardone ECMs but only with a 1 year warranty. Here's O'Reilly's offering:

CARDONE INDUSTRIES - Remanufactured Electronic Control Unit
Part No: 72-2048
1 Per Vehicle
Limited lifetime warranty
w/OEM #37820
P06
A00, A01
ENG CTRL MODULE
w/MAN TRANS
EXC CALIF
Our Price: $293.99


Each
[Core: $70 ]

kean

hello txgreasemonkey,

sorr for not being convinced but i looked for a same model car and we switched our P27 ECM, his ECM just worked fine with me, my ECM was really bad. for the moment i will just buy a used ECM to be able use the car. but i dont think it will stay long since it will be the same age as my ECM and the probability of failing is high. that includes humid, hot, and cold weather, and more places are flooeded during rainy days.

i plan to keep the car for long since it is my 1st car.

looking for branches of Cordone Industries, i found one in mississauga ontario canada where most of my ralatives live. i hope they have a stock

i will just ask them to buy me one and give it to me on their next visit to us this november.

thank you very much for your help