Frigidaire range bake and broil element

OvenFrank · #1 Nov 18, 2006, 11:09 AM

Hello,

We have a Frigidaire slide-in ceramic smooth top range. It is a Canadian model CPES389CA1. Seemingly no parts manufacturer on the Internet knows about this model. The range is five years old and it had less than normal use.
Now there is no heat from bake or broil element anymore. Removing the back panel and checking for 240V at the element's end - no voltage. Their conductivity is good.
Heater probe resistance (supposedly 1100 Ohm at ambient temperature???) is right on.
All control panel functions (selecting Celsius/Fahrenheit, set baking temp, close door, clock, timer etc.) are OK.
No error code is shown. Convection element and fan works.
Wiring diagram downloaded from Frigidaire shows a thermal breaker in the temperature probe circuit.
(scratching my head) Anybody know how to test this breaker?
EOC is expensive ($262+tax+shipping at Sears) - and no returns.

Any idea appreciated,

OvenFrank · Nov 18, 2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OvenFrank

Hello,

We have a Frigidaire slide-in ceramic smooth top range. It is a Canadian model CPES389CA1. Seemingly no parts manufacturer on the Internet knows about this model. The range is five years old and it had less than normal use.
Now there is no heat from bake or broil element anymore. Removing the back panel and checking for 240V at the element's end - no voltage. Their conductivity is good.
Heater probe resistance (supposedly 1100 Ohm at ambient temperature???) is right on.
All control panel functions (selecting Celsius/Fahrenheit, set baking temp, close door, clock, timer etc.) are OK.
No error code is shown. Convection element and fan works.
Wiring diagram downloaded from Frigidaire shows a thermal breaker in the temperature probe circuit.
(scratching my head) Anybody know how to test this breaker?
EOC is expensive ($262+tax+shipping at Sears) - and no returns.

Any idea appreciated,

Here is the wiring diagram from Frigidaire.

andrewcocke · Nov 18, 2006, 12:57 PM

From the looks of it, both of thoese elements engergize through the board. In these cases, the only thing to check is any and every switch that would cause the element to drop out.
Checking the thermal breaker is a good start. Unless the diagram gives you a description of test points to test the breaker, you may just need to unplug it from the board and ohm it out. It should read closed. If it does, then double check any switches, such as door switches.

Basicly you are trying to find out if the board is getting all of the proper commands to heat. If it is and you are still not heating, then you could have a faulty control board. Verify that there are no loose wires aswell.

OvenFrank · Nov 18, 2006, 06:24 PM

andrewcocke: From the looks of it, both of those elements energize through the board. In these cases, the only thing to check is any and every switch that would cause the element to drop out.
Checking the thermal breaker is a good start. Unless the diagram gives you a description of test points to test the breaker, you may just need to unplug it from the board and ohm it out. It should read closed. If it does, then double check any switches, such as door switches.

Basically you are trying to find out if the board is getting all of the proper commands to heat. If it is and you are still not heating, then you could have a faulty control board. Verify that there are no loose wires as well.

Hi Andrew,

Thanks. According to the diagram the thermal breaker should be on the wire somewhere.
No luck to find it. There is nothing on this board that can be removed.
Question: measuring between the points P7 L2 IN (Red) and P1 L1 (Black) the meter reads 120V. Is that OK?

Back to you,

andrewcocke · Nov 18, 2006, 07:02 PM

The measurements between L1 and L2 should be 220-240 volts. If you were reading the same potential, then you would be reading zero volts.

A reading from either L1 or L2 to ground or neutural should read 120 volts. However a reading between L1 and L2 of 120 suggest to me that one of the hot legs is grounded out. However if this were the case, then once you throw power in the cord, it should short out. I would check to make sure that your cord is connected properly.

Its almost like L2 and N got crossed over. But how. The only thing I can think of now is a cord installed improperly, but since its been working up to this point, that doesnt seem proboble. You could verify the incoming voltage at the outlet, between L1 and L2 there you should get 240 volts, and 120 volts on each leg to N.

120 volts between L1 and L2 seems like a problem. It is possible that something on the board shorted go ground, now the L1 or L2 potential is serving as a ground.

Try this, unhook the L1 and L2, check for 240 volts on the wire (or harness).

I must apologize if Im not making much since, I presently have about 3 girls around me begging for ice cream now.

OvenFrank · Nov 18, 2006, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcocke

The measurements between L1 and L2 should be 220-240 volts. If you were reading the same potential, then you would be reading zero volts.

A reading from either L1 or L2 to ground or neutral should read 120 volts. However a reading between L1 and L2 of 120 suggest to me that one of the hot legs is grounded out. However if this were the case, then once you throw power in the cord, it should short out. I would check to make sure that your cord is connected properly.

Its almost like L2 and N got crossed over. But how. The only thing I can think of now is a cord installed improperly, but since its been working up to this point, that doesn't seem probable. You could verify the incoming voltage at the outlet, between L1 and L2 there you should get 240 volts, and 120 volts on each leg to N.

120 volts between L1 and L2 seems like a problem. It is possible that something on the board shorted go ground, now the L1 or L2 potential is serving as a ground.

Try this, unhook the L1 and L2, check for 240 volts on the wire (or harness).

I must apologize if I'm not making much sense, I presently have about 3 girls around me begging for ice cream now.

Back from the kitchen........

Well, that is how it is. Incoming from receptacle Black/Red 240V. (120V on each side Black/White, Red/White.) Disconnect Red and Black from EOC and measure 120V.
This is the problem (says this ignorant man). If the wiring diagram is true there should be 240V between them.
Checking convection element --- right on, 120V as it should be. Would this say to us that the red wire is OK?
Should I get a piece of wire and use it as ground (connected to the neutral terminal in the back) to get a reading on the Black wire (L1)?

Say hello to the girls.

andrewcocke · Nov 18, 2006, 08:12 PM

If you have 240 volts at L1 and L2 where the power comes in, (the cord) but 120 volts between P7 L2 and P1 L1 then it sounds like you have a short somewhere. Perhaps a terminal has burned off, the wire that is leading to the control board is touching ground.

I can think of no other way, if there is 240 volts coming in on the proper terminals, then there should be 240 volts standing between P7 and P1 (that is a 1 correct, its a little hard to read).

If thats the case, then the elemens most certainly wont work becuase they require 240 volts to work properly.

andrewcocke · Nov 18, 2006, 08:16 PM

Oh and yes, the convection element should only require 120 volts. However you said earlier that it is working. Its the broiler and the bake element that are not working.

OvenFrank · Nov 18, 2006, 08:53 PM

Hello Andrew,

There is no Voltage on the Red-3 coming into the EOC. Somewhere the red wire from the receptacle is bifurcating - one goes to the top elements (they are all OK) and the other to the EOC.
Comparing the wiring diagram and the working parts: door latch, latch motor, convection fan, and bottom warmer ((convection element was OK until "sparks were flying" (did I just blew away the diode?)) are working. All these parts probably work from the Black wire and need only 120V.
The other circuit containing the bake and broil elements need 240V, because there is 120V only they refuse to warm up. The confusing part is: why P2 and ground (I used a piece of wire connected to the range's back white pole) gives exactly 0. What do you think?

The wire bundle from the back runs in the space between the top elements and the oven. It is about 5" high. The wires are sufficiently short that even the front panel can't be pulled away from the range.
How is this done by the repairman? Do they disconnect everything to pull the wires out?

I just can't give up yet- although curiosity can be deadly.

Thanks,

Oven Ron · Dec 27, 2006, 09:30 AM

hello OvenFrank:
I have a Frigidaire CPES389CC1 whose oven bake and broil elements won't heat up - starting this morning when my wife needs to do a lot of baking for guests in the next couple of days. The Frigidaire service guy here in Calgary is coming by tomorrow to check it out, and he thinks it's the "clock unit" which costs around $700 for the part. Did you ever find the problem with your stove? This seems like it should be a easier fix than replacing the entire control unit. Especially at this cost. The stove is 3 years old and this part is not under warranty now.
Please help !!
-OvenRon



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