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speechlesstx
Oct 31, 2012, 05:23 PM
Moveon runs an ad threatening violence if Romney wins...

Content warning!

f17fWth3YgA

Really?

paraclete
Oct 31, 2012, 05:53 PM
Well what you need over there is another revolution

dontknownuthin
Oct 31, 2012, 06:29 PM
Ignore the extremists - on both sides. This is a very vitriolic election. We all stir the pot when we repost and engage in discussion about the extremists but amplifying their voices.

paraclete
Oct 31, 2012, 07:05 PM
What is the opposite of an extremist, a conservative, no I will ignore the conservatives

tomder55
Nov 1, 2012, 02:11 AM
I'd say this is a typical US election . This is neither more vitriolic than in the past ,or more divisive. The US is like that . What we consider a landslide is plus or minus 55% of the electorate voting for one ,and 45% voting for the other candidate.
Lyndon Johnson received the largest percentage of votes any president has ever had in 1964, taking 61.5 percent of the vote. Three other presidents broke the 60 percent mark: Warren G. Harding in 1920, Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1936 and Richard Nixon in 1972. Except Roosevelt ,none of them are considered exceptional Presidents.
By contrast ; Lincoln ,Kennedy , Woodrow Wilson (twice ),Clintoon (twice ) ;a total of 18 Presidential elections were decided by the winner receiving LESS than 50% of the vote...
Five times with 45 percent of the vote or less.
26 U.S. presidential elections, the winner received less than 52 percent of the vote. Add to that , a significant segment of our population registers their preference by not voting at all.

We are a divided nation by nature;political parties having been formed by Washington's 2nd term.Only once did the issues fracture the nation.(not surprising... the 1860 election had one of the highest voter turnouts) .

Ideologues have always played a role in our politics;but the vast majority of both political parties are moderates and vote that way. Elections are decided by Reagan Democrats ,and Clintoon Repubics.
This election there is a centrist who had to schmooze the right before swinging back to the center against an ideologue lefty who pretends to be centrist.

Many times I've documented the rhetoric used in campaigns in our history to show that there is nothing new in the way the game is played. Again I'll refer to the 1800 Jefferson v Adams election between 2 of our most famous founders. Their contest best illustrated the philosophical divide that is still present today. They were bitter rivals but remained best of friends until they both passed away on July 4,1826 ,the 50th Anniversary of the day they both signed the Declaration of Independence.
But when they campaigned ,they or their surrogates rhetoric was much nastier than anything we see today.
Jefferson's campaign said that John Adams was a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman." Adams' campaign said that Jefferson was "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw sired by a Virginia mulatto father."

That Michael Moore video production is comically infantile .I would expect nothing less from the Moore-on. It just shows the desperation of the left.

joypulv
Nov 1, 2012, 03:00 AM
Desperation of the left? Gee, I thought it was Tea Party desperation (and desperate people are never witty) that's been hyping the few random threats any campaign elicits, and this little satire is a funny response.

PS: thanks for those interesting tidbits of American history.

tomder55
Nov 1, 2012, 03:37 AM
If it was satire it is doubly strange in that it is mocking left wing scares about Republican voter suppression etc. It also threatens violence ,something you are not hearing from Tea Party factions. When taken together with the Obama favoring ads that included a young women equating voting for Obama with losing virginity ;Samuel Jackson telling us to "Wake the F up " ;it shows a big contrast to the soaring rhetoric of the 2008 campaign. Vulgarity is a sign of desperation .

speechlesstx
Nov 1, 2012, 04:48 AM
What tom just said. Contrast the left's filth (or most any Obama ad to Romney's) to this ad by an openly gay Republican in Massachusetts. Yeah, that's what I said...


Alzz11k9yMk

tomder55
Nov 1, 2012, 05:04 AM
Been to the Gloucester , Rockport ,and the Cape Ann area. I highly recommend it as a place to take a restful retreat or vacation. Gloucester is also famous as the home port of the Andrea Gail ;the boat depicted in the movie 'The Perfect Storm'.
http://www.barenakedfamily.com/Visualize/Experiences/Cape_Ann/fish_memorial.jpg

excon
Nov 1, 2012, 06:09 AM
Hello:


Contrast the left's filthFilth?? FILTH?? This morning I woke up to to adds telling me that my president ARMED Al Quaida, the people who killed 3,000 of us, by GIVING them weapons... The implication, of course, is that our president is a Muslim, terrorist, traitor.

And, I found out that because we're about to make gay marriage legal in Washington, that homosexuality WILL absolutely be TAUGHT in Washington schools...

The fact that you will most likely AGREE with these two outrageous propositions, removes ANY credibility YOU have to DISS the other side...

Excon

speechlesstx
Nov 1, 2012, 06:16 AM
I know nothing about any such ad, you'd have to post it.

P.S. Again putting words in my mouth, I've never implied Obama is a Muslim though I have defended him against such nonsense (here (http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/want-understand-truly-do-186891-2.html#post895707), here (http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/messiah-update-267101-6.html#post1311604) and here (http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/levis-revelation-374111-7.html#post1855320) for instance) and I would never make such a dumb connection to teaching homosexuality in your schools... although PP would teach damn near anything if given the chance.

excon
Nov 1, 2012, 06:27 AM
Hello again, Steve:

Anti prop 47 add (http://pmwr74.wordpress.com/2012/10/29/preserve-marriage-washington-releases-new-television-ad-schools-could-teach/).

I haven't heard you SAY Obama is a Muslim, but you're all over the "coverup" at Benghazi (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/10/25/obama-arming-al-qaeda-reason-for-libya-cover-up/).. Now, I know what you THINK he covered up..

excon

excon
Nov 1, 2012, 06:33 AM
Hello again, Steve:


I would never make such a dumb connection to teaching homosexuality in your schools.And, I would NEVER foment VIOLENCE if Romney is elected...

But, you IMPLY that I would.. If you're NOT making that implication, WHY make THIS post? Therefore, I have NO problem IMPLYING that you wear your tin foil hat all day.

Excon

speechlesstx
Nov 1, 2012, 06:59 AM
I haven't heard you SAY Obama is a Muslim, but you're all over the "coverup" at Benghazi.. Now, I know what you THINK he covered up..


Good grief ex, I just gave you 3 links where I've rejected the Obama/Muslim connection, what do I have to do, beat you over the head with it?

Is it really that impossible for a liberal to believe we don't like Obama for his policies and behavior, like failing to protect his own guys then lying out his a$$ about it?

speechlesstx
Nov 1, 2012, 07:01 AM
P.S. the thread is about "Moveon runs an ad threatening violence if Romney wins...", not ex threatens violence. Geez dude, stick to the facts.

speechlesstx
Nov 1, 2012, 07:05 AM
And, I found out that because we're about to make gay marriage legal in Washington, that homosexuality WILL absolutely be TAUGHT in Washington schools...

Do you understand the difference between "could be taught" and "WILL absolutely be TAUGHT?" You're so overly dramatic these days, are you in a panic like those pitiful rich white libs in San Fran (http://www.sfgate.com/politics/joegarofoli/article/Dems-nervous-GOP-upbeat-as-vote-nears-3989238.php#photo-3656021)?

And where's the ad about Obama arming al Qaeda?

excon
Nov 1, 2012, 09:08 AM
Hello again, Steve


It's come to this I agree with the old farts. If the Republicans STEAL this election, I'm going to burn this MF'er down.

Excon

speechlesstx
Nov 1, 2012, 09:18 AM
You're all talk, you're just a big ol' teddy bear deep down.

talaniman
Nov 1, 2012, 02:56 PM
I don't believe you guys are scared of some seniors in a nursing home! Them righty lunatics with the guns are the ones we better pay attention to.

tomder55
Nov 1, 2012, 04:28 PM
Or maybe all the tweets calling for riots if the President loses.

dontknownuthin
Nov 1, 2012, 04:42 PM
Extremists are on both sides. I'd ignore all of them and look to the middle, which is where cooler and more rational heads normally prevail. Some good ideas on both sides, some bad ideas on both sides. Some goodness and some corruption on both sides. I do think this is the ugliest election I have ever seen in my lifetime, and I'm past middle aged.

speechlesstx
Nov 1, 2012, 04:48 PM
Personally I think the middle is wishy-washy. Stand for something people.

tomder55
Nov 1, 2012, 05:21 PM
If I say I'm a conservative then you have at least a general idea of my beliefs . What do I know about a moderate's beliefs ?

speechlesstx
Nov 1, 2012, 05:39 PM
Get aalong?

speechlesstx
Nov 2, 2012, 06:38 AM
In another "it's come to this" development, non-union crews from Alabama were turned away from assisting in the recovery.

Nonunion Ala. crews turned away from Sandy recovery (http://www.waff.com/story/19981857/some-nonunion-ala-crews-turned-away-from-sandy-recovery)

Really?

NeedKarma
Nov 2, 2012, 07:03 AM
Alabama is full of stupid people?

speechlesstx
Nov 2, 2012, 07:25 AM
Alabama is full of stupid people?

Really?

NeedKarma
Nov 2, 2012, 07:30 AM
I guess so. Unions exists all over the place in different forms and in different countries and no one would refuse help after a natural disaster - the only variable here is the location, ergo Alabamians (or whatever) ain't the brightest in the bunch.

speechlesstx
Nov 2, 2012, 07:53 AM
I'm quite sure utility workers in Alabama are just as capable as any other. The only variable is the union, and if I needed power and the union turned away help I'd be pi$$ed. But that's the union for you, arrogant a$$es that put themselves above people in need.

tomder55
Nov 3, 2012, 01:34 AM
Time for Christie to show some REAL leadership ,and bring them into the state and provide the safety and appreciation they deserve .

Drove through Passaic County yesterday (not on the coast) ;and large swaths of the county are in the dark ;and residents are telling me that they are being told that they are 10-14 days away from getting power back.
Well ,this week we will get our first winter like event . The people on the 2 mile long lines for gas are not only filling their cars to go to work . Many are trying to fill gas cans to keep their generators operating . They are the lucky ones. The rest will be wrapping themselves in blankets in days.
To turn away people who drove 500 miles to assist is criminal .

tomder55
Nov 3, 2012, 02:09 AM
dontknownuthin,
This election there is a record to examine. I'd argue that for a middle of the road ,no labels type of person there is no choice here but to vote for Romney based on performance and not ideology.
He was a Republican Governor of a very liberal Democrat State .He worked with an overwhelmingly Democrat state legislature and still achieved .

Contrast that with the current President ,the Great Divider .
His signature legislations stimulus ,Obamacare and Dodd-Frank will weigh on our economy for as long as they remain the law of the land. But more important ,they were rammed through without any reaching across the aisle and they destroyed any thought of bipartisanship from the guy who campaigned on the slogan that "there are no red states or blue states, only the United States of America." Even after the 2010 landslide election in Congress ,the President couldn't manage to pivot to lead the country.If anything ,his actions became even more partisan ,divisive ,and extremist.

He opposed Arizona's attempts to enforce Federal law on immigration to appease one constituency . He opposed Boeing's new factory in South Carolina to appease another . To get a czar of the new National Labor Relations Board and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau installed he bypassed the Constitutional Senate authority for advise and consent. He killed 25,000 jobs to appease the environmental constitutency when he blocked the Keystone XL pipeline . I could go on ,but you get the idea.

If you are looking for a President that has demonstrated he can reach a consensus then Romney's you candidate.

TUT317
Nov 3, 2012, 02:57 AM
I'm quite sure utility workers in Alabama are just as capable as any other. The only variable is the union, and if I needed power and the union turned away help I'd be pi$$ed. But that's the union for you, arrogant a$$es that put themselves above people in need.

No one was turned away according to the video by the General Manager of Decatur Utilities.

"Looking at some documentation or some requirements that were placed on our employees by the local union that work in those areas. So once we were able to try and obtain copies of that information. It was a quick decision. But those things that concerned us;placed requirements on our employees. Again, this was at the end of the day so our folks had been stalled and not been able to proceed that day. We had concerns it was going to take some time before we could resolve the questions about the requirements the union might place on us. And WE made the decision late last night to go ahead and bring our guys home. It was something WE felt like we needed to do because of the time our guys had been stalled"

The General Manager goes on to say that (in his opinion) it is not a union versus non-union issue.

My emphasis in the quote on the WE tells us that the union did not turn away the help.

Tut

tomder55
Nov 3, 2012, 02:58 AM
Back to topic

Here is the latest :
Obama aide Kareem Dale, a partially disabled man who is Special Assistant to the President for disability policy, told a group of volunteers at DNC headquarters Thursday they should "win this motherf*****."

This is the overheated hyper-partisan vulgarity that dontknownutin is speaking of. Dale preceded this with a comment that suggest Romney wants to kill people with disabilities. It follows similar outrages from VP Biden and Michelle Obama suggesting that Romney wants to put blacks back on the plantation (Michelle... "back to the crop fields" and Biden... "They want y'all back in chains!").

Hey Dale ! Obamacare provides funding for 16,000 new IRS agents and not a single doctor ! Who's trying to kill you ?

tomder55
Nov 3, 2012, 03:00 AM
No one was turned away according to the video by the General Manager of Decatur Utilities.

"Looking at some documentation or some requirements that were placed on our employees by the local union that work in those areas. So once we were able to try and obtain copies of that information. It was a quick decision. But those things that concerned us;placed requirements on our employees. Again, this was at the end of the day so our folks had been stalled and not been able to proceed that day. we had concerns it was going to take some time before we could resolve the questions about the requirements the union might place on us. And WE made the decision late last night to go ahead and bring our guys home. It was something WE felt like we needed to do because of the time our guys had been stalled"

The General Manager goes on to say that (in his opinion) it is not a union versus non-union issue.

My emphasis in the quote on the WE tells us that the union did not turn away the help.

Tut

There is audio somewhere (I'll find it) that shows the workers being confronted by unionized utility workers calling them scabs and to go home.

TUT317
Nov 3, 2012, 03:05 AM
There is audio somewhere (I'll find it) that shows the workers being confronted by unionized utility workers calling them scabs and to go home.


Tom, don't worry about finding it. I am not disputing what you are claiming.

I am disputing the accuracy of the claim that the workers were turned away by the union.

Tut

tomder55
Nov 3, 2012, 03:31 AM
Well since I can't verify the veracity of the source of the audio I withdraw the comment anyway. The audio is real ;but there is nothing in the audio that clearly links it to this incident . Further ,I just listened to Goveror Christie's presser from yesterday ;and he said it was all a big misunderstanding .

tomder55
Nov 3, 2012, 03:53 AM
PS: thanks for those interesting tidbits of American history.

There will be more on the 1800 election tomorrow evening on '60 Minutes'

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57544621/tough-campaign-much-worse-in-1800/

speechlesstx
Nov 3, 2012, 05:06 AM
"because of the time our guys had been stalled"

I noticed that part, too.

speechlesstx
Nov 3, 2012, 05:15 AM
Mr. Hopenchange, the guy who ushered in a new era of civility, wants Americans to get "revenge" at the polls. (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/03/romney-vote-for-country-not-revenge/)

Romney responded of course.


That evening, in West Chester, Romney responded, "Our big dreams will not be satisfied by his small agenda that already failed us. Today, did you see what President Obama said today? He asked his supporters to vote for revenge – for revenge. Instead I ask the American people to vote for love of country."

Again, one man is president and the other is presidential.

tomder55
Nov 3, 2012, 05:21 AM
From Christie's presser yesterday :
"I’ve been on the phone with PSE&G [Public Service Electric and Gas Company], JCP&L [Jersey Central Power & Light] and the union, and they’ve all absolutely promised me they would never turn away a single worker whether they were union or nonunion, and I wouldn’t allow it,” ......“I would invoke my powers under the Disaster Control Act to prevent that from happening, but they’ve assured me we don’t have to.”

excon
Nov 3, 2012, 05:54 AM
Hello again, Steve:


Again, one man is president and the other is presidential.I don't know. I could LOVE a candidate who DONATED to the Red Cross. But, I'm not thrilled with one who spent money on cans of food (http://americablog.com/2012/10/romney-hurricane-sandy-donations.html), and gave them out to volunteers so they could GIVE them back to HIM while his team took a photo of it.

But, that's just me... I like REAL.

Excon

speechlesstx
Nov 3, 2012, 06:19 AM
You really have drank the koolaid. You're guy is nothing BUT a photo op, and I've already documented Romney's personal generosity.

paraclete
Nov 3, 2012, 02:36 PM
I have watched the body language and there is something deceptive there

tomder55
Nov 3, 2012, 03:37 PM
Good grief !

Wondergirl
Nov 3, 2012, 04:11 PM
I have watched the body language and there is something deceptive there
He has Asperger's.

tomder55
Nov 3, 2012, 04:30 PM
Double good grief !

Wondergirl
Nov 3, 2012, 04:31 PM
double good grief !
Fact of life, not a judgment.

paraclete
Nov 3, 2012, 05:40 PM
You can't have the free world ruled by a person with Aspergers, such people are incapable of compromise

Wondergirl
Nov 3, 2012, 05:45 PM
you can't have the free world ruled by a person with Aspergers, such people are incapable of compromise
I disagree. Compromise is possible, but he has to figure out and agree your position has merit. Actually, compromising isn't the problem -- wanting to listen to and obey the loudest voice is the problem, i.e. is too easily swayed with mind easily changed.

talaniman
Nov 3, 2012, 07:13 PM
That's sounds like Mitt all right, but he doesn't have to make decisions. Grover and the gang will make the decisions and all he has to do is sign where they point.

Grover Norquist on a President Mitt « The Last Of The Millenniums (http://thelastofthemillenniums.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/grover-norquist-on-a-president-mitt/)


‘Pick a Republican with enough working digits to handle a pen to become president of the United States. This is a change for Republicans: the House and Senate doing the work with the president signing bills. His job is to be captain of the team, to sign the legislation that has already been prepared’.

He will do as he is told, or be out of a job... AGAIN!!

tomder55
Nov 4, 2012, 01:03 AM
Show me the medical report that shows the diagnosis ,and not the unprofessional musings of bloggers... and Clete ,even if it were true ,it would not be a disqualifier .

NeedKarma
Nov 4, 2012, 01:38 AM
It does seem to be the left talking point (https://www.google.com/search?source=ig&rlz=&q=mitt+romney+aspergers+&oq=mit+romney+asp&gs_l=igoogle.1.0.0i13l8.216.5005.0.6788.12.12.0.0. 0.0.240.1526.1j10j1.12.0...0.0...1ac.1.hrHsIFL7pl4 #hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&q=does+mitt+romney+have+aspergers&revid=1779704624&sa=X&ei=1zaWUJirO8uJ0QH5roCIDQ&ved=0CG0Q1QIoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=9f3b3a75d770ea2&bpcl=37189454&biw=1680&bih=925) these days. Even Daily KOS says he's no aspie:
Daily Kos: Mitt Romney does NOT have Asperger's Syndrome (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/11/1090734/-Mitt-Romney-does-NOT-have-Asperger-s-Syndrome)

paraclete
Nov 4, 2012, 03:56 AM
Did I say he had asperger's, no someoneelse contributed that, however, it is apparent his manner is sufficient to demonstate he has difficulty with relationships. Look Tom, I know he is the Great White Hope over there, but the boy is flawed, there is definitely something in his manner and enough for the speculation to arise, if not aspergers then he has a God complex

speechlesstx
Nov 4, 2012, 04:15 AM
He has Asperger's.

Lol, tomorrow he'll be an alien in human skin. Has anyone touched him to see if he's cold?

NeedKarma
Nov 4, 2012, 04:25 AM
Has anyone touched him to see if he's cold?Not on the outside.

excon
Nov 4, 2012, 04:41 AM
Hello again,

He does NOT have Asperger's.. He has a stick up his a$$. That, or his magic underwear is too tight.

He DOES have a dazzling smile, though.

excon

paraclete
Nov 4, 2012, 01:14 PM
If you like that sort of thing, ex, smarmy

Wondergirl
Nov 4, 2012, 01:47 PM
He does NOT have Asperger's.
Yup, Mark my words. He does. You heard it from me first. I LIVE with two, my fil was one, have had library volunteers who have Asperger's, immediately IDed a new member to my writing group as having Asperger's, have thoroughly studied it, am good friends with several guys with Asperger's and with the neurotypical ("normal" to youse guys) editor of the world's major Asperger's magazine.

Some people have gaydar; I have Aspergerdar.

excon
Nov 4, 2012, 02:00 PM
Hello Carol:

I believe you... He certainly IS detached.

excon

paraclete
Nov 4, 2012, 02:31 PM
So now you believe EX anyway you better hope this one doesn't win, he will be worse than GWB who wasn't there a lot of the time

Wondergirl
Nov 4, 2012, 02:42 PM
Hello Carol:

I believe you... He certainly IS detached.

excon
Dear excon:

He is also unempathetic (has NO clue how someone else feels and is the only one walking around in his world), has poor social skills, has a horribly unfunny sense of humor, can't think outside of the box, has no integrity (sways with whatever wind is blowing on him), has a robotic way of moving and speaking, and more. Just ask me.

Your devoted servant,
Carol

tomder55
Nov 4, 2012, 04:31 PM
Yeah and Lincoln ,one of our greatest Presidents was a manic depressive on the verge of suicidal... and Kennedy was addicted to pain killers and suffered from complications of sexually transmitted disease Basically he was a physical wreck long before he entered the Presidency. . And the current President is an incurable narcissistic. FDR hid a debilitating crippling illness from the public ;and his staff hid the fact that he ran for a 4th term knowing he would have heart failure before his term would end. .

This is what it has come down to... cheap smears.

Wondergirl
Nov 4, 2012, 04:41 PM
This is what it has come down to.... cheap smears.
NOT a smear from me. Heck, I am MARRIED to a guy with Asperger's. He is the salt of the earth, but I would not vote for him for president.

paraclete
Nov 4, 2012, 07:47 PM
The point is Tom, that it is better that the President doesn't come with baggage, these are different times with different issues and the President is a much more public figure.

The cult of personality has invaded the presidency and if he is less than perfect the outcomes will be less than perfect, you have to look no further than the last two presidents to see that

tomder55
Nov 5, 2012, 02:18 AM
these are different times with different issues More critical than the breakup of the country ;the great depression and WWII ,or the faceoff with the Soviets over nukes in Cuba ? BS . These are cheap shots based on nothing except personal observations from video .It is no more valid than the nuts who made a stink about Obama's birthplace .

paraclete
Nov 5, 2012, 01:27 PM
All the great issues you faced you brought upon yourselves and the rest of us. I don't think you have learned anything from history

tomder55
Nov 7, 2012, 03:19 AM
Chi-town is sending Jesse Jackson Jr back to the House. He hasn't served for months because of psycological problems .

Jesse Jackson Jr. Wins Reelection From Mayo Clinic | NBC Chicago (http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Jesse-Jackson-Jr-Wins-Reelection--175717941.html?dr)

NJ is sending Menendez back to the Senate even after it was revealed he was paying for sex in the Dominican Republic. Seems nothing the Dems do matters.

NeedKarma
Nov 7, 2012, 03:35 AM
Seems nothing the Dems do matters.Considering the Republican politicians get caught in their pedophilia it doesn't seem too bad.

speechlesstx
Nov 7, 2012, 10:18 AM
You didn't have Secret Service sex scandals when Bush was in office, or this:

http://www.mensperception.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/gsa-bath-tub-las-vegas-475x262.jpg

speechlesstx
Nov 7, 2012, 10:23 AM
Well the good news is the old folks won't have to "burn this motherf****r down."

So, now that Obama has won without offering us anything but Big Bird, binders, blame Bush and burning down the country, what next?

NeedKarma
Nov 7, 2012, 10:24 AM
You got a problem with people taking a bath with a glass of wine?

Meanwhile:

Republican aide, Alan David Berlin, was arrested on charges that he wanted to engage in sex acts with a 15 year old boy while dressed in a panda costume.

Republican activist and former presidential campaign chairman Jeffrey Claude Bartleson was arrested on charges of sexually molesting a 5-year old boy.

Republican activist and former chairman of the Christian County Republicans Royce Fessenden pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree child molestation and one count of second-degree statutory sodomy.

Republican parole board officer and former legislator George Christian (Chris) Ortloff pleaded guilty to attempting to lure 11- and 12-year-old girls to have sex with him.

Republican legislative aide Robert R. Groezinger pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography.

Republican legislator Robert A. McKee pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography.

Republican chief of staff Eric Feltner pleaded guilty to showing pornography to a 13-year old girl.

Republican presidential campaign official Matthew Joseph Elliott was convicted of sexual exploitation of a child.

Republican city councilman John Bryan killed himself after police began investigating allegations that he had molested three girls, including two of his adopted daughters, ages 12 and 15.


Republican legislator Ted Klaudt was charged with raping girls under the age of 16.

Republican city councilman Joseph Monteleone Jr. was found guilty of fondling underage girls.

Republican congressional aide Jeffrey Nielsen was arrested for having sex with a 14-year old boy.

Republican County Commissioner Patrick Lee McGuire surrendered to police after allegedly molesting girls between the ages of 8 and 13.

Republican Mayor Jeffrey Kyle Randall was sentenced to 275 days in jail for molesting two boys -- ages ten and 12 -- during a six-year period.

Republican County Board Candidate Brent Schepp was charged with molesting a 14-year old girl and killed himself three days later.

Republican Congressman Mark Foley abruptly resigned from Congress after "sexually explicit" emails surfaced showing him flirting with a 16-year old boy.

Republican executive Randall Casseday of the conservative Washington Times newspaper pleaded guilty to soliciting sex from a 13-year old girl on the internet.

Republican chairman of the Oregon Christian Coalition Lou Beres confessed to molesting a 13-year old girl.

Republican County Constable Larry Dale Floyd pleaded guilty to charges of soliciting sex from an 8-year old girl. Floyd has repeatedly won elections for Denton County, Texas, constable.

speechlesstx
Nov 7, 2012, 10:43 AM
Are you keeping track equally with Democrat perverts all the way down to the county level?

And yes, I DO have a problem with bureaucrats having a glass of wine in a nice hotel on my dollar when they should be PROTECTING my dollars instead of wasting them.

NeedKarma
Nov 7, 2012, 10:49 AM
And yes, I DO have a problem with bureaucrats having a glass of wine in a nice hotel I guess you'll just have to live with your "problem".
I guess you've never done any business travel... or you're just jealous.

speechlesstx
Nov 7, 2012, 11:10 AM
I guess you just have no clue.

NeedKarma
Nov 7, 2012, 11:19 AM
The refuge of the beaten LOL.

speechlesstx
Nov 7, 2012, 11:32 AM
Who said I was beaten? Even if I were it's good to know you laugh at others misfortune.

Wondergirl
Nov 7, 2012, 12:31 PM
And yes, I DO have a problem with bureaucrats having a glass of wine in a nice hotel on my dollar when they should be PROTECTING my dollars instead of wasting them.
Don't police eat donuts and drink coffee during a break? And that's wasting your tax dollars?

speechlesstx
Nov 7, 2012, 01:12 PM
Don't police eat donuts and drink coffee during a break? And that's wasting your tax dollars?

You really don't see a problem with government wasting our money on sushi, posh hotels, champagne, $44 a head for breakfast, $95 a head for dinner and sessions with a mind reader?

P.S. Coffee and donuts are not part of our cops' benefits, they buy their own.

Wondergirl
Nov 7, 2012, 01:19 PM
P.S. Coffee and donuts are not part of our cops' benefits, they buy their own.
It's on your dime while they are at work.

I used to drive my son to high school on my way to work. Every single morning a certain cop would be parked near the car of a very pretty female postal worker, and they would be chatting (and flirting?) like nobody's business. Was that double dipping on my dime?

speechlesstx
Nov 7, 2012, 01:55 PM
It's on your dime while they are at work.

Um yes, our cops get breaks for lunch and such. I'll be glad to give GSA workers lunch breaks, too. They can buy their own sushi.


I used to drive my son to high school on my way to work. Every single morning a certain cop would be parked near the car of a very pretty female postal worker, and they would be chatting (and flirting?) like nobody's business. Was that double dipping on my dime?

I think the point here is you used to drive and so you probably had a drivers license and could have obtained another ID rather easily.

talaniman
Nov 7, 2012, 02:03 PM
The ID debacle has been put to bed, so lets get some integrity bac kin the system ,like do something about the 4 hour waiting in line part. Time to do this right!

paraclete
Nov 7, 2012, 02:08 PM
Yes BO expressed some concern about that, you know if you had compulsory voting you could calculate how many people were going to turn out and how many polling places you need. Queueing theory would allow you to calculate how many machines it would take to get the wait down to say 15 minutes of course I'm speaking about a utopian place like Australia where such things are possible and we don't even use voting machines. I hear it took 45 minutes to lodge a vote using a machine, what is that about?

talaniman
Nov 7, 2012, 02:22 PM
Some states had ballots that were 5 pages long!

paraclete
Nov 7, 2012, 02:28 PM
Ours rarely get beyond two two foot pages but even so what could possibly take so long, don't your voters make up their mind before they go? We long ago devised a simple system called above the line voting, to cut through the guff you place a 1 , etc, above the line and the propositions the parties have preprepared are applied

speechlesstx
Nov 7, 2012, 02:29 PM
And if people would do their homework before showing up they wouldn't have to stand there holding up those of us who did.

paraclete
Nov 7, 2012, 02:34 PM
You see speech this is the result of your population being inexperienced with the voting process

talaniman
Nov 7, 2012, 02:37 PM
We did okay, we knew the outcomes before midnight.

paraclete
Nov 7, 2012, 02:40 PM
Wasn't what I meant, the delay at the polls is because first time voters don't know what to expect. With all that machine voting the answer should be almost instantaneous

speechlesstx
Nov 12, 2012, 06:41 AM
Chi-town is sending Jesse Jackson Jr back to the House. He hasn't served for months because of psycological problems .

Jesse Jackson Jr. Wins Reelection From Mayo Clinic | NBC Chicago


And 5 days later he's probably going to the big house (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57548177/jesse-jackson-jr-plea-deal-likely-to-include-resignation-jail-time/) instead the House of Representatives.

NeedKarma
Nov 12, 2012, 06:50 AM
Good. Crooks should go to jail.

tomder55
Nov 12, 2012, 07:24 AM
The ID debacle has been put to bed, so lets get some integrity bac kin the system ,like do something about the 4 hour waiting in line part. Time to do this right!

The lines were generally longer where local Democrat ward bosses ran the show. What does that tell you ?

tomder55
Nov 12, 2012, 07:26 AM
Some states had ballots that were 5 pages long!

What do you expect when some states have unlimitted initiative and referendums ? In NY where we don't have that, the ballots were a simple and compact single page .

talaniman
Nov 12, 2012, 12:49 PM
I blame republican govenors with a right wing agenda to cut early voting. Cheap bastards, or cunning suppression, or BOTH!!

TUT317
Nov 12, 2012, 01:02 PM
The lines were generally longer where local Democrat ward bosses ran the show. What does that tell you ?


What it tells the person from the outside looking in is that too many states are incompetent ( accident or design) when it comes to Federal elections.

Tut

paraclete
Nov 12, 2012, 01:27 PM
What it might show Tut is a vast difference in capabilities and resources

speechlesstx
Nov 12, 2012, 02:02 PM
It's matter of a state's constitution pretty much. Certain issues in some states cannot be decided by the legislature, they must go before the people. That's when we actually get a say and I like it that way.

TUT317
Nov 13, 2012, 01:33 AM
It's matter of a state's constitution pretty much. Certain issues in some states cannot be decided by the legislature, they must go before the people. That's when we actually get a say and I like it that way.

Hi Steve,

Fair enough, but I think in four years times you will be going through exactly the same arguments- nothing will have changed. Oh! except for more states adopting I.D. laws.

This in itself will be interesting from my point of view. It may well solve some of your problems, but it will only being tinkering at the edges. What I think will happen is that the scamming games will move closer to- or into the polling stations.


Tut

cdad
Nov 13, 2012, 04:02 AM
Hi Steve,

Fair enough, but I think in four years times you will be going through exactly the same arguments- nothing will have changed. Oh!, except for more states adopting I.D. laws.

This in itself will be interesting from my point of view. It may well solve some of your problems, but it will only being tinkering at the edges. What I think will happen is that the scamming games will move closer to- or into the polling stations.


Tut



The scamming may have already happened and we are unaware of it. In many polling places they have moved to an electronic ballot system. Unlike paper ballots there is no way to truly verify how the actual vote is being tallied. Wasteful or not the paper ballots are much harder to defraud then the electronic style.

tomder55
Nov 13, 2012, 04:34 AM
In 59 Philadelphia voting divisions, Mitt Romney got zero votes

In 59 Philadelphia voting divisions, Mitt Romney got zero votes - Philly.com (http://articles.philly.com/2012-11-12/news/35069785_1_romney-supporters-mitt-romney-sasha-issenberg)

Statistically impossible in my opinion.

excon
Nov 13, 2012, 05:17 AM
Hello again, tom:


statistically impossible in my opinion.I don't disagree. However, it's not reasonable to believe that you can't actually CATCH somebody, even ONE person doing it. We HAVE lots of cops. We HAVE lots of Republicans WATCHING every precinct. We HAVE lots of state Republican officials trying to catch somebody...

Yet, you CAN'T actually CATCH anybody cheating - NOBODY! All you got is wingers COMPLAINING and maybe cooking the books.. PROSECUTION will prove it to me... Hearing right wingers SNIVEL doesn't.

Excon

tomder55
Nov 13, 2012, 05:40 AM
Hello again, tom:

I don't disagree. However, it's not reasonable to believe that you can't actually CATCH somebody, even ONE person doing it. We HAVE lots of cops. We HAVE lots of Republicans WATCHING every precinct. We HAVE lots of state Republican officials trying to catch somebody...

Yet, you CAN'T actually CATCH anybody cheating - NOBODY!! All you got is wingers COMPLAINING and maybe cooking the books.. PROSECUTION will prove it to me... Hearing right wingers SNIVEL doesn't.

excon

Then how do you explain it ? The odds that a couple voters in those districts accidentally votes for Romney far exceed the odds of a perfect turn out . Down in Fla ;St Lucie County is registering 140% of turn out . North Carolina urban districts registered votes for the President far exceeding analyst predictions ;and a Republican base that was more motivated than 2008 had a lower turnout for Romney than McCain got ? Please !
That's right the cheaters have not been caught. That doesn't mean it isn't happening . I was on the fence as to the extent until I spent the last few days looking into the breakdown of the results .

excon
Nov 13, 2012, 05:54 AM
Hello again, tom:

Without PROOF, it's IDLE speculation. It MIGHT even be LYING. Look. This is SIMPLE. If the Democrats STOLE the election, PROVE it. You'd think you COULD if it was happening... We're talking about MILLIONS of people here. You'd think you could find ONE snitch or ONE cheater. You CAN'T.

Talk about numbers that DEFY logic..

excon

tomder55
Nov 13, 2012, 06:02 AM
I'm just applying Occams Razor .

excon
Nov 13, 2012, 06:31 AM
Hello again, tom:

I'm not smart enough to know what that is. But, I DO know the law, and I KNOW if millions of people are cheating, and the Republicans have been put ON NOTICE that they were going to, and you can't catch a single one, I apply the BS meter.

excon

tomder55
Nov 13, 2012, 07:10 AM
And I'm smart enough to know that if the situation was reversed you'd have your ready made explanation of 'voter suppression ' ready with the same degree of legal evidence.
The answer to all this is...
Proof of U.S. citizenship when we registering to vote;
An ID card to prove we are who we claim we are, when we check in to vote;
And replace electronic voting machines with paper ballots.

talaniman
Nov 13, 2012, 07:25 AM
More oversight of republican govenors. Epecially in Florida. They even screw up paper ballots and Arizona isn't much better.

excon
Nov 13, 2012, 07:28 AM
Hello again, tom:

Nahhh, we just need rules making elections the same in Tuskaloosa, Al, the same as elections in NY City... MAILING in your vote could do it. Everybody has a post office.

excon

tomder55
Nov 13, 2012, 07:36 AM
Oh yeah mail in ballots are verifiable lol . Here in NY there was a case last year where elected officials pled guilty in a case where they forged mail in ballots in a primary. Now you may claim this is an isolated one off . I say that for every case proven there are many more that get away with it.

excon
Nov 13, 2012, 07:52 AM
Hello again, tom:

Seems to me, that if TWO ballots came in with the SAME signature, that with a little investigation, it COULD be determined WHO the legitimate voter is... If DOZENS came in that way, then they need to do DOZENS of investigations... None of that results in fraudulent votes being counted.

You guys don't seem to consider what you THINK is happening, with what's actually POSSIBLE on the ground.. As I pointed out earlier, if a person wanted to wait in line for 8 hours, he COULD possibly cast ONE fraudulent vote... To think that MILLIONS of people DID that is ridiculous.

So, let's go over mail in voting as it applies to the real world. Tell me HOW it can be rigged.

excon

speechlesstx
Nov 13, 2012, 08:14 AM
But you use the exception to prove your case. Most people did not wait in line 8 hours. I was in and out in 5 minutes.

tomder55
Nov 13, 2012, 08:30 AM
Tell me HOW it can be rigged.
I just told you... elected officials caught in the act pled guilty . You know what the international observers said ? They were shocked at the level of trust that we have in the integrity of our process in light of the fact that there is so little verification .


What's unique about the way the Americans do it, it's not the process, it's the confidence that's placed in the process,"
Well let me tell you ,on many fronts that confidence is breaking down ;and we best work at installing a higher degree of integrity in our system.
Foreign election officials amazed by trust-based U.S. voting system | The Cable (http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/11/06/foreign_election_officials_amazed_by_trust_based_u s_voting_system)

speechlesstx
Nov 13, 2012, 02:26 PM
More from the "it's come to this" version of America. First, our Interior Secretary threatens to punch out a reporter (http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/11/witness-salazar-threatened-colorado-reporter-149402.html)...


Interior Secretary Ken Salazar threatened to punch a reporter on a recent trip to Colorado, according to witnesses.

Dave Philipps, a reporter for the Colorado Springs Gazette, tried to ask Salazar about his appointments to the Bureau of Land Management and the wild horse population in the state. Specifically, Philipps had questions about the government's relationship with a wild horse buyer who allegedly sold more than 1,700 horses to Mexican slaughterhouses.

Ginger Kathrens, executive director of the Cloud Foundation, witnessed the exchange between Salazar and a reporter. Her organization put out a release cataloging the exchange and blasting Salazar for his treatment of the press.

According to Kathrens, Salazar took two questions from Philipps before disagreeing with his line of questioning.

"Don't you ever ... You know what, you do that again... I'll punch you out," Salazar reportedly told Philipps before ending the interview and walking off.

The alleged incident took place when Salazar was in Colorado on Election Day, on behalf of the Obama campaign.

"The secretary regrets the exchange," Interior spokesman Blake Androff told POLITICO.

"These threats would have been inappropriate coming from anyone, but the fact that it came out of the mouth of the Secretary of the Interior is alarming,” Kathrens said in a statement. “I can’t believe that a top official in Obama’s cabinet could be so defensive.”

Philipps, the reporter, declined to comment.

Why so sensitive hombre?

Next, an English professor at Montclair State in NJ, thinks Stalin was a swell guy (http://washingtonexaminer.com/your-tax-dollars-at-work-prof-says-stalin-did-not-kill-millions-of-people-thats-the-big-lie/article/2513339#.UKLIhWf1bf2)...


Dr. Grover Furr, an English professor at Montclair State University in New Jersey, told students that dictator Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Russia regime never murdered millions of people, contra popular belief.

“I have yet to find one crime — yet to find one crime — that Stalin committed,” Furr said. “I know they all say he killed 20, 30, 40 million people — it is bulls–t . . . [Nazi propagandist] Goebbels said that the Big Lie is successful and this is the Big Lie: that the Communists — that Stalin killed millions of people and that socialism is no good.” The allusion to Nazi propaganda came after his interlocutor began to suggest that Furr was using Goebbels’ tactic.

And we wonder why our kids are falling behind...

talaniman
Nov 13, 2012, 03:01 PM
How is this any crazier than the right wingers in Texas trying to secede from the union again? What doesTHAT teach our kid?

paraclete
Nov 13, 2012, 04:45 PM
It might be a good thing, then Texas could deal with the mexican problem on their own and you wouldn't have any more of that rabid war mongering red neck leadership. You could build a nice wall further north along the Red River

Wondergirl
Nov 13, 2012, 04:48 PM
You could build a nice wall further north along the Red River
But what would happen to the Alamo? And speech is in the Panhandle.

cdad
Nov 13, 2012, 05:09 PM
It might be a good thing, then Texas could deal with the mexican problem on their own and you wouldn't have any more of that rabid war mongering red neck leadership. You could build a nice wall further north along the Red River

They will be building it elsewhere. 47 states want to get away from this government.


http://www.examiner.com/article/citizens-47-states-sign-petitions-to-secede-from-united-states

excon
Nov 13, 2012, 05:15 PM
Hello again,

Does it surprise me that you can find reactionaries?? Nope.

But, it's just talk. It's DANGEROUS talk, but they HATE their country.. I don't know why. This ISN'T something a patriot does. They're TRAITORS.

excon

paraclete
Nov 13, 2012, 05:19 PM
They will be building it elsewhere. 47 states want to get away from this government.


http://www.examiner.com/article/citizens-47-states-sign-petitions-to-secede-from-united-states

So 47 states want to leave, it's got to tell you something. If you drew two lines north south you could fit most of the Republican states in one section and most of the democrat states in two. So back to the original California, United Sates, and the new country of Mississippi Basin at one time called Lousianna

cdad
Nov 13, 2012, 05:28 PM
Hello again,

Does it surprise me that you can find reactionaries??? Nope.

But, it's just talk. It's DANGEROUS talk, but they HATE their country.. I dunno why. This ISN'T something a patriot does. They're TRAITORS.

excon

By design this is exactly what a patriot has the ability to do. That is why the forefathers put in the 2nd amendment for if a time were to come the citizenry could stand their ground against a tyranical government. Here is the problem of the moment. This country is experiencing a gross amount of division. Everyone is feeling it from all sides. Somehow in some way there had to be a meeting of the minds that doesn't have one side always trying to bowl the other over. If you think the right man is in the office at this time to do so then maybe we should all start a campaign to get him off his duff and start actually doing his job.

We need a leader not someone who thinks they are a rock star and we don't need to be reminded of his color nor anyone else's every 5 minutes.

paraclete
Nov 13, 2012, 06:21 PM
Hello again,

Does it surprise me that you can find reactionaries??? Nope.

But, it's just talk. It's DANGEROUS talk, but they HATE their country.. I dunno why. This ISN'T something a patriot does. They're TRAITORS.

excon

Do they hate their country Ex or what it has become? You have a polarised electorate, so why not take those who would like to be someplace else and let them leave, What have you lost?

This is what you get when people's hopes are built up by B/S. It happened once before that a number of people just decided to leave. It is a pity they were stopped, you wouldn't have this problem today, oh I forgot those who were once democrats are now republicans and those who were once republicans are now democrats. How does that work? The leavers want to stay and the stayers want to leave, very fickle people

excon
Nov 13, 2012, 06:25 PM
Hello clete:

I have no problem if people want to go. Just leave the dirt. It's OURS.

excon

paraclete
Nov 13, 2012, 07:16 PM
Therein lies the problem Ex they see it as theirs, Tell you what, load them on boats and send them over here, if they survive the voyage we have a nice tropical island they can stay on. What we have is lots of dirt, lovely red dirt and we would like a better class of economic refugees

tomder55
Nov 14, 2012, 03:35 AM
Perry: Texas Will Not Secede From US « CBS Houston (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/11/13/perry-texas-will-not-secede-from-us/)

Some of the people who signed the petition are from blue states . Doesn't make much sense . All they'd be doing is creating another nation dominated by libs.

cdad
Nov 14, 2012, 04:04 AM
Perry: Texas Will Not Secede From US « CBS Houston (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2012/11/13/perry-texas-will-not-secede-from-us/)

some of the people who signed the petition are from blue states . Doesn't make much sense . All they'd be doin is creating another nation dominated by libs.

Sounds like wonderland to me. I wish them luck. ;) lol

speechlesstx
Nov 14, 2012, 05:27 AM
Just wow, some idiots starting petitions at Obama's request is worse than a college professor denying Stalin was a bad guy? You lefties are pathological dodgers.

excon
Nov 14, 2012, 06:02 AM
Hello again, Steve:


You lefties are pathological dodgers.And, you, my friend, are pathological deniers... You got TROUNCED, and now we're going to TAKE the spoils.

If you complained about Obamacare being SHOVED down your throats, I'm SURE you're not going to like the tax hikes we're going to SHOVE. Elections HAVE consequences..

Come on, Steve... If Romney had won, you'd SHOVE YOUR right wing agenda down OUR throats... You know it too.

Excon

speechlesstx
Nov 14, 2012, 06:13 AM
I'm not denying anything, ex. We got beat, but as the Dems' mantra of a few years ago said, 51% is not a mandate (http://www.cafepress.com/beatbushgear/418013).

excon
Nov 14, 2012, 06:43 AM
Hello again, Steve:

As I said, you are the KINGS of deniers. But, you got CLOBBERED, and you're going to feel it. Things is DIFFERENT now... Obama's first term has been VALIDATED by the American public. YOUR policies have been roundly REPUDIATED.

In fact, had your local Republican controlled state legislatures NOT redrawn (gerrymandered) the congressional districts to PROTECT Republicans, the Democrats WOULD have retaken the House.

This ISN'T idle speculation. It's ARITHMETIC! You got TROUNCED!

excon

speechlesstx
Nov 14, 2012, 07:10 AM
Obama received 7.6 million fewer votes than the first time around, that's arithmetic. Republicans now hold 30 governorships, that's arithmetic. As Abe Greenwald said (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/11/11/democrats-better-start-soul-searching/) and I think he may be right, one of the reasons Obama won is Americans have some illogical crush on Obama.


Obama couldn’t run on his record, which proved to be no problem—Americans didn’t vote on his record. According to exit polls, 77 percent of voters said the economy is bad and only 25 percent said they’re better off than they were four years ago. But since six in ten voters claimed the economy as their number one issue, it’s clear this election wasn’t about issues at all.

The president’s reelection is not evidence of a new liberal America, but rather of the illogical and confused experience that is infatuation. For multiple reasons, Americans continue to have a crush on Barack Obama even after his universally panned first term. No longer quite head over heels, they’re at the “I know he’s no good for me, but I can change him” phase. Whatever this means, it surely doesn’t suggest conservatives would be wise to move closer to policies that aren’t even popular among Obama supporters.

You're just trying to do what Obama did and discourage people. Horse hockey, I'm not buying your "you got trounced so bend over and take it in the backside like a good b*tch" strategy. We're not going away.

NeedKarma
Nov 14, 2012, 08:00 AM
Well at least we now know what neo-conservative jews think in their blogs.

speechlesstx
Nov 14, 2012, 09:41 AM
Obviously you don't think the Obama phenomenon is a personality cult. You must have missed his first run.


Obama is, of course, greater than Jesus." -- Politiken (Danish newspaper)

"No one saw him coming, and Christians believe God comes at us from strange angles and places we don't expect, like Jesus being born in a manger." --Lawrence Carter

"Many even see in Obama a messiah-like figure, a great soul, and some affectionately call him Mahatma Obama." -- Dinesh Sharma

"We just like to say his name. We are considering taking it as a mantra." -- Chicago] Sun-Times

"A Lightworker -- An Attuned Being with Powerful Luminosity and High-Vibration Integrity who will actually help usher in a New Way of Being" -- Mark Morford

"What Barack Obama has accomplished is the single most extraordinary event that has occurred in the 232 years of the nation’s political history" -- Jesse Jackson, Jr.

"Does it not feel as if some special hand is guiding Obama on his journey, I mean, as he has said, the utter improbability of it all?" -- Daily Kos

"He communicates God-like energy... " -- Steve Davis (Charleston, SC)

"Not just an ordinary human being but indeed an Advanced Soul" -- Commentator @ Chicago Sun Times

"I'll do whatever he says to do. I'll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear." -- Halle Berry

"A quantum leap in American consciousness" -- Deepak Chopra

"He is not operating on the same plane as ordinary politicians.. . The agent of transformation in an age of revolution, as a figure uniquely qualified to open the door to the 21st century." -- Gary Hart

"Barack Obama is our collective representation of our purest hopes, our highest visions and our deepest knowings.. . He's our product out of the all-knowing quantum field of intelligence." -- Eve Konstantine

"This is bigger than Kennedy.. . This is the New Testament." | "I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have that too often. No, seriously. It's a dramatic event." -- Chris Matthews

"[Obama is ] creative imagination which coupled with brilliance equals wisdom.. . [He is] the man for this time." -- Toni Morrison

"Obama's finest speeches do not excite. They do not inform. They don't even really inspire. They elevate.. . He is not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh.. . Obama is, at his best, able to call us back to our highest selves." -- Ezra Klein

"Obama has the capacity to summon heroic forces from the spiritual depths of ordinary citizens and to unleash therefrom a symphonic chorus of unique creative acts whose common purpose is to tame the soul and alleviate the great challenges facing mankind." -- Gerald Campbell

"We're here to evolve to a higher plane.. . He is an evolved leader.. . [he] has an ear for eloquence and a Tongue dipped in the Unvarnished Truth." -- Oprah Winfrey

“I would characterize the Senate race as being a race where Obama was, let’s say, blessed and highly favored. That’s not routine. There’s something else going on. I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered.. . I know that that was God’s plan." -- Bill Rush

1_l8KK3gGxQ

NeedKarma
Nov 14, 2012, 10:15 AM
Good for the american people. All those people are allowed to speak their opinions.

speechlesstx
Nov 14, 2012, 10:24 AM
True, they all have the right to be complete morons.

excon
Nov 14, 2012, 10:26 AM
Hello again, Steve:

Yeah, we LIKE our leader. Maybe if YOU liked Romney as well, he might be president...

Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

NeedKarma
Nov 14, 2012, 10:32 AM
True, they all have the right to be complete morons.They are your fellow americans.

speechlesstx
Nov 14, 2012, 11:10 AM
They are your fellow americans.

I'll remember that next time someone here plays the race card.

speechlesstx
Nov 14, 2012, 11:13 AM
Yeah, we LIKE our leader. Maybe if YOU liked Romney as well, he might be president...

I do like Romney, but those examples were way past LIKE. That was creepy. Mentally unbalanced creepy.

talaniman
Nov 14, 2012, 11:19 AM
Some idiots want to keep fighting even after the war is over, and they lost. Cooler heads will prevail. Just wait until they need services and benefit that American have. But they haven't thought that far ahead but I wonder when Texas leaves will they take the govenor with them?

You do know the Cowboys are America's team don't you? I doubt Jerry Jones signs anything!

speechlesstx
Nov 14, 2012, 12:02 PM
Some idiots want to keep fighting even after the war is over

Oh the irony. Your side is still whining about 2000.

TUT317
Nov 15, 2012, 02:29 AM
I do like Romney, but those examples were way past LIKE. That was creepy. Mentally unbalanced creepy.


I think it is more like this:

On the day you or I achieve a stable condition of equilibrium, those around us who have been less fortunate will draw one of two conclusions. Either that we are dead or that we have slipped into a state of clinically diagnosable delusion. And to live in delusion is to live in the comfort of ideology

John Ralston Saul


.

speechlesstx
Nov 15, 2012, 06:28 AM
I think it is more like this:

On the day you or I achieve a stable condition of equilibrium, those around us who have been less fortunate will draw one of two conclusions. Either that we are dead or that we have slipped into a state of clinically diagnosable delusion. And to live in delusion is to live in the comfort of ideology

John Ralston Saul

Close enough.

talaniman
Nov 15, 2012, 07:51 AM
Let me know when you guys reach your equilibrium, and get out of the delusion of ideology.

NeedKarma
Nov 15, 2012, 07:56 AM
Let me know when you guys reach your equilibrium, and get out of the delusion of ideology.I don't think he really understood Tut's quote.

speechlesstx
Nov 15, 2012, 08:57 AM
The Gospel According to Apostle Barack: In Search of a More Perfect Political Union as "Heaven Here on Earth" (http://www.amazon.com/Gospel-According-Apostle-Barack-ebook/dp/B008TKFWDS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top%23reader_B008TKFWDS)


"Yes, Barack had worked tirelessly on behalf of the American people, especially those who elected him in 2008. His followers needed to re-elect him to a second term, so that he could continue to accomplish the promises he made, thus, realizing his vision of America as a more perfect political union or “heaven here on earth.”

Then, as I began to contemplate ways to assist Barack in his 2012 re-election bid something miraculous happened. I felt God’s (His) Spirit beckoning me in my dreams at night. Listening, cautiously, I learned that Jesus walked the earth to create a more civilized society, Martin (Luther King) walked the earth to create a more justified society, but, Apostle Barack, the name he was called in my dreams, would walk the earth to create a more equalized society, for the middle class and working poor. Apostle Barack, the next young leader with a new cause, had been taken to the mountaintop and allowed to see over the other side. He had the answers to unlock the kingdom of “heaven here on earth” for his followers. The answers were repeated - over and over - in speeches Barack had made from his presidential announcement to his inaugural address. Those speeches or his teachings contained the answers to the middle class and working poor people living in a “heaven here on earth.” For when the answers were unlocked and enacted, Apostle Barack’s vision of America would be realized.


"About the Author - Barbara A. Thompson is a native of Tallahassee, Florida, with graduate degrees from Florida A&M University and Florida State University. She has been teaching for more than twenty-five years at the university level with experience in the areas of health, physical education and sport management. She is a professor at Florida A&M University, a former assistant vice president for academic affairs, past president of her university's chapter of United Faculty of Florida, a graduate of the National Education Association's Emerging Leader Academy and a two-time recipient of the Who's Who Among America's Teachers Award"

This country is in trouble...

NeedKarma
Nov 15, 2012, 09:28 AM
Haha, a terrible book with terrible reviews. No lack of those on Amazon.
How did you find it?

albear
Nov 15, 2012, 10:43 AM
First saw this on Russel howards good news, tis brilliant :D

speechlesstx
Dec 5, 2012, 08:17 AM
Amsterdam plans to relocate troublemakers to ‘scum villages’ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/04/amsterdam-plans-to-relocate-troublemakers-to-scum-villages/)


In a move that sounds straight out of Orwell, Amsterdam allocated 1 million euros last week to a plan that would relocate trouble-making neighbors to camps on the outskirts of the city, the BBC reports.

The “scum villages,” as critics have called them, would lie in isolated areas and provide only basic services to their unwilling residents. According to details of the plan reported by Der Spiegel and the BBC, residents will live in “container homes,” under the watchful eye of social workers or police. The residents themselves might not make very good company. According to the BBC, they’ll include families that engage in repeated, small-scale harassment, like bullying gay neighbors or intimidating police witnesses.

I hear there's even a hotline so you can report your a$$ of a neighbor. What could go wrong?

paraclete
Dec 5, 2012, 01:06 PM
Seems nazism is never far from european thinking

excon
Dec 8, 2012, 09:01 AM
Hello again,

I looked for the thread where Steve posted a video about a liberal teacher doing something outrageous to a conservative kid. I clucked my tongue over that one. Anyway, I couldn't find it, so I'm going to post here.

Democrats don't go to heaven (http://www.atheistrev.com/2012/12/democrats-don-go-to-heaven.html).

excon

paraclete
Dec 8, 2012, 02:32 PM
Are you complaining about someone exercising free speech

excon
Dec 8, 2012, 04:30 PM
Hello clete:

A teacher doesn't HAVE free speech rights in the classroom.

excon

paraclete
Dec 8, 2012, 05:21 PM
Really and I mistakenly thought your much lauded Constitution was for everyone. Goes to show that democracy can be very shallow

Wondergirl
Dec 8, 2012, 05:25 PM
really and I mistakenly thought your much lauded Constitution was for everyone. Goes to show that democracy can be very shallow
A teacher (or any other professional or student) is first bound by the rules of the institution with which he or she is a part.

paraclete
Dec 8, 2012, 05:27 PM
So the interstitution supercedes the constitution, I seem to remember a similar argument recently regarding supply of contraception. I think the institution lost. Didn't you country fight a war to preserve the constitution

Wondergirl
Dec 8, 2012, 05:54 PM
It depends. There was the Tinker v. Des Moines case in 1969 --

The principles of the Tinker case, which remain valid today, start with the premise that students are persons in and out of school, with fundamental rights. The Court stated that the classroom is a marketplace of ideas and depends on a robust exchange of ideas. Students and teachers don’t “shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate.”

The Court stated firmly that free speech on campus is the basis of our national strength. “A subject should never be excluded from the classroom merely because it is controversial,” wrote the Court. But does this mean there are no limits–that you can say or do anything while at school? Where is the line drawn?

The test is one of disturbance or disorder. As long as the act of expression doesn’t greatly disrupt classwork or school activities, or invade the rights of others, it’s acceptable. There’s no hard-and-fast rule that applies to every situation. Each case presents its own set of circumstances and must be dealt with accordingly. It was decided in Tinker that there was no evidence of disruption at school or interference with other students’ rights. (Juvenile Supreme Court Cases (http://www.askthejudge.info/student-free-speech/176/))

paraclete
Dec 9, 2012, 12:51 AM
So you agree

speechlesstx
Dec 10, 2012, 07:08 AM
It's come to this, a liberal NY Times columnist says conservatives have a point on the "safety net".


Profiting From a Child’s Illiteracy (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/opinion/sunday/kristof-profiting-from-a-childs-illiteracy.html?ref=opinion&_r=0)
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

THIS is what poverty sometimes looks like in America: parents here in Appalachian hill country pulling their children out of literacy classes. Moms and dads fear that if kids learn to read, they are less likely to qualify for a monthly check for having an intellectual disability.

Many people in hillside mobile homes here are poor and desperate, and a $698 monthly check per child from the Supplemental Security Income program goes a long way — and those checks continue until the child turns 18.

“The kids get taken out of the program because the parents are going to lose the check,” said Billie Oaks, who runs a literacy program here in Breathitt County, a poor part of Kentucky. “It’s heartbreaking.”

This is painful for a liberal to admit, but conservatives have a point when they suggest that America’s safety net can sometimes entangle people in a soul-crushing dependency. Our poverty programs do rescue many people, but other times they backfire.

Some young people here don’t join the military (a traditional escape route for poor, rural Americans) because it’s easier to rely on food stamps and disability payments.

Antipoverty programs also discourage marriage: In a means-tested program like S.S.I. a woman raising a child may receive a bigger check if she refrains from marrying that hard-working guy she likes. Yet marriage is one of the best forces to blunt poverty. In married couple households only one child in 10 grows up in poverty, while almost half do in single-mother households.

Most wrenching of all are the parents who think it’s best if a child stays illiterate, because then the family may be able to claim a disability check each month.

“One of the ways you get on this program is having problems in school,” notes Richard V. Burkhauser, a Cornell University economist who co-wrote a book last year about these disability programs. “If you do better in school, you threaten the income of the parents. It’s a terrible incentive.”

About four decades ago, most of the children S.S.I. covered had severe physical handicaps or mental retardation that made it difficult for parents to hold jobs — about 1 percent of all poor children. But now 55 percent of the disabilities it covers are fuzzier intellectual disabilities short of mental retardation, where the diagnosis is less clear-cut. More than 1.2 million children across America — a full 8 percent of all low-income children — are now enrolled in S.S.I. as disabled, at an annual cost of more than $9 billion.

That is a burden on taxpayers, of course, but it can be even worse for children whose families have a huge stake in their failing in school. Those kids may never recover: a 2009 study found that nearly two-thirds of these children make the transition at age 18 into S.S.I. for the adult disabled. They may never hold a job in their entire lives and are condemned to a life of poverty on the dole — and that’s the outcome of a program intended to fight poverty.

I have nothing further to add to that.

excon
Dec 10, 2012, 07:11 AM
Hello again, Steve:

Me neither. It's YOU guys who think we're all about government dependency.

excon

speechlesstx
Dec 10, 2012, 07:22 AM
Hello again, Steve:

Me neither. It's YOU guys who think we're all about government dependency.

excon

I don't see any libs trying to reduce government dependency, do you?

excon
Dec 10, 2012, 07:29 AM
Hello again, Steve:

Yes, I do. Jobs would do that, but you guy's are BLOCKING Obama's jobs bill. I don't know how you don't know this, but working brings people out of poverty.

The way to bring people out of dependency is NOT to cut 'em loose and make 'em fend for themselves... That would by YOUR solution... You believe they're NOT hungry - they're MOOCHERS. You believe they're NOT homeless - they're MOOCHERS. Romney let us in on the secret.

excon

speechlesstx
Dec 10, 2012, 09:40 AM
Hello again, Steve:

Yes, I do. Jobs would do that, but you guy's are BLOCKING Obama's jobs bill. I dunno how you don't know this, but working brings people out of poverty.

]The way to bring people out of dependancy is NOT to cut 'em loose and make 'em fend for themselves... That would by YOUR solution... You believe they're NOT hungry - they're MOOCHERS. You believe they're NOT homeless - they're MOOCHERS. Romney let us in on the secret.


Kristoff gave us a starting point to talk, but you just want to keep perpetuating tired old canards. I tried.

paraclete
Dec 10, 2012, 01:01 PM
It's not an old canard, Romney a recent candidate said it, of course he is now irrelevant, 47% are irrelevant to Republicans, that's the other 47%

speechlesstx
Dec 10, 2012, 02:00 PM
it's not an old canard, Romney a recent candidate said it, of course he is now irrelevant, 47% are irrelevant to Republicans, that's the other 47%

Um, this is the canard:


The way to bring people out of dependency is NOT to cut 'em loose and make 'em fend for themselves... That would by YOUR solution... You believe they're NOT hungry - they're MOOCHERS. You believe they're NOT homeless - they're MOOCHERS.

My name is not Romney and that's not what most of us believe.The discussion was about Kristof acknowledging something we've been saying for years. Are liberals willing to reach a solution together or do they just want to continue with myths, class warfare and perpetuating the problem?

paraclete
Dec 10, 2012, 04:31 PM
The problem is you can't let people starve just because they are disadvantaged. They may carry some of the blame for their condition and they may not. They are not moochers because they need help. I don't believe a person is homeless by choice even though their actions may have led them to that point. A homeless person is often someone who has a form of mental illness, in the same way the disadvantaged don't cope for a number of reasons but they are not moochers. Look we all know someone who can't get their shlt together, most families have them, mine has one and I know another. We want these people to be different, to get a job, to live differently, but sometimes you do have to cut them loose

Wondergirl
Dec 10, 2012, 04:42 PM
All the homeless who hung out at the public libraries where I worked were mentally ill and were not medicated. The root of this is back in US history when the mental institutions were emptied and patients were deinstitutionalized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation). There weren't enough controls to "force" footloose and fancy-free mental patients to take their meds. My uncle would have ended up homeless, but my family (mostly me) rode herd on him and got him back into a VA hospital every few years when he stopped taking his meds and then started sliding back downhill mentally. Not everyone has dedicated and loving family members and/or the resources to seek hospitalization.

paraclete
Dec 10, 2012, 06:50 PM
not everyone needs hospitalisation but they do need to be part of a family, we as a society and I speak of societies in many places have lost our values and we are interested only in what is good for us personally. We saw the worst of that with Romney's comment, he clearly had no interest in connecting with those who couldn't or wouldn't get him elected

talaniman
Dec 11, 2012, 06:51 AM
Profiting From a Child?s Illiteracy - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/opinion/sunday/kristof-profiting-from-a-childs-illiteracy.html?ref=opinion&_r=0)

So everybody thinks like apalachian hillbilly's? So because one backward family was scamming the system then the system doesn't work so throw it out? That's always the flaw in right wing thinking. Find one example and blame everybody. But the author also goes on to cite,


There’s a danger in drawing too firm conclusions about an issue — fighting poverty — that is as complex as human beings themselves. I’m no expert on domestic poverty. But for me, a tentative lesson from the field is that while we need safety nets, the focus should be instead on creating opportunity — and, still more difficult, on creating an environment that leads people to seize opportunities.

At leasts he seems to acknowledge that some can be helped so help them, and some need a lot more help, so try to help them too. But you righties don't acknowledge at all the long term lack of opportunity, or the right help. But you are quick to point out it's a waste of time and money.

speechlesstx
Dec 11, 2012, 06:59 AM
the problem is you can't let people starve just because they are disadvantaged. they may carry some of the blame for their condition and they may not. They are not moochers because they need help. I don't believe a person is homeless by choice even though their actions may have led them to that point. a homeless person is often someone who has a form of mental illness, in the same way the disadvantaged don't cope for a number of reasons but they are not moochers. look we all know someone who can't get their shlt together, most families have them, mine has one and I know another. We want these people to be different, to get a job, to live differently, but sometimes you do have to cut them loose

And you are also somehow under the impression I want to let the moochers starve? That's the same canard as ex. Seriously dude, I'm talking about people gaming the system and policies that perpetuate the problem. You give people incentives not to work and too many won't. You give them incentives to be a single parent on welfare and what do you expect?

speechlesstx
Dec 11, 2012, 07:07 AM
Profiting From a Child?s Illiteracy - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/opinion/sunday/kristof-profiting-from-a-childs-illiteracy.html?ref=opinion&_r=0)

So everybody thinks like apalachian hillbilly's? So because one backward family was scamming the sytem then the system doesn't work so throw it out? Thats always the flaw in right wing thinking. Find one example and blame everybody.

Funny how you have libs have this inexplicable need to turn an example we present into us blaming everyone. No wonder we can't work together for solutions. Read the article, Tal, he gave more than just that example.

talaniman
Dec 11, 2012, 07:17 AM
This small window of facts pales in the face that most poor people work. It's a small example against a bigger picture. You don't talk solutions just symptoms of a bigger problem that needs to be addressed and hillybilly's don't bankrupt America.

speechlesstx
Dec 11, 2012, 08:18 AM
This small window of facts pales in the face that most poor people work. It's a small example against a bigger picture. You don't talk solutions just symptoms of a bigger problem that needs to be addressed and hillybilly's don't bankrupt America.

Tal, you think only Appalachian hill folk are the only ones gaming the system this way? Bwa ha ha ha!! DUDE, you're missing the bigger picture here not me.

Example 1 of the bigger picture:


Antipoverty programs also discourage marriage: In a means-tested program like S.S.I. a woman raising a child may receive a bigger check if she refrains from marrying that hard-working guy she likes. Yet marriage is one of the best forces to blunt poverty. In married couple households only one child in 10 grows up in poverty, while almost half do in single-mother households.

Example 2: of the bigger picture:


Most wrenching of all are the parents who think it’s best if a child stays illiterate, because then the family may be able to claim a disability check each month.

Example 3 of the bigger picture:


About four decades ago, most of the children S.S.I. covered had severe physical handicaps or mental retardation that made it difficult for parents to hold jobs — about 1 percent of all poor children. But now 55 percent of the disabilities it covers are fuzzier intellectual disabilities short of mental retardation, where the diagnosis is less clear-cut. More than 1.2 million children across America — a full 8 percent of all low-income children — are now enrolled in S.S.I. as disabled, at an annual cost of more than $9 billion.

That is a burden on taxpayers, of course, but it can be even worse for children whose families have a huge stake in their failing in school. Those kids may never recover: a 2009 study found that nearly two-thirds of these children make the transition at age 18 into S.S.I. for the adult disabled. They may never hold a job in their entire lives and are condemned to a life of poverty on the dole — and that’s the outcome of a program intended to fight poverty.

Example 4 of the bigger picture:


Our political system has created a particularly robust safety net for the elderly, focused on Social Security and Medicare — because the elderly vote. This safety net has brought down the poverty rate among the elderly from about 35 percent in 1959 to under 9 percent today.

BECAUSE kids don’t have a political voice, they have been neglected — and have replaced the elderly as the most impoverished age group in our country. Today, 22 percent of children live below the poverty line.

Of American families living in poverty today, 8 out of 10 have air-conditioning, and a majority have a washing machine and dryer. Nearly all have microwave ovens. What they don’t have is hope. You see it here in the town of Jackson, in the teenage girls hanging out by the bridge over the north fork of the Kentucky River, seeking to trade their bodies for prescription painkillers or methamphetamines.

Personally I don't give a rat's a$$ how many people game the system, one is too many and your solution is to make excuses. We need to stop using our children as pawns in this game and change the culture so they have that hope and can succeed and break the cycle of government dependence.

NeedKarma
Dec 11, 2012, 08:51 AM
So what program is the solution to this issue?

talaniman
Dec 11, 2012, 09:31 AM
And your solution is to eliminate all the programs? To make people get married? Can't you see that the dependence you speak of and cite is the lack of hope, guidance, support, and it's the lack of money that drives most of today's problems. NOT well intentioned programs that could stand to be more efficient.

speechlesstx
Dec 11, 2012, 09:51 AM
And your solution is to eliminate all the programs? To make people get married? Can't you see that the dependence you speak of and cite is the lack of hope, guidance, support, and it's the lack of money that drives most of today's problems. NOT well intentioned programs that could stand to be more efficient.

Good grief Tal, could you drop this worn out straw man that we want end all programs and just cut everyone off? I am not believing I referenced a well-known liberal as a starting point to talk and you and ex just can't keep your knees from jerking.

My solution is the same as Kristof's and what another liberal columnist Leonard Pitts used to say, do "what works." Kristof used what Save the Children does as an example:


Save the Children trains community members to make home visits to at-risk moms like Ms. Hurley, and help nurture the skills they need in the world’s toughest job: parenting. These visits begin in pregnancy and continue until the child is 3 years old.

It's not a matter of efficiency, it's an attitude problem and a system that ENCOURAGES government dependence. There is no hope when parents intentionally use their children as pawns for a government handout. I was willing to talk about it, but you're hellbent on making excuses, promoting that victimhood mentality and spreading myths.

Wondergirl
Dec 11, 2012, 09:57 AM
It's not a matter of efficiency, it's an attitude problem and a system that ENCOURAGES government dependence.
Then let's stop the young teen girls (or even younger ones) from getting pregnant and ending up as single moms on some government program.

NeedKarma
Dec 11, 2012, 10:00 AM
My solution is the same as Kristof's and what another liberal columnist Leonard Pitts used to say, do "what works."Well that's really no solution, just pithy words.

Remember those dependent people are a mix of conservatives and liberals so it really isn't on political issue on their side. Perhaps the issue resides in why people's attitudes towards parenting has gone downhill so much. I for one do not believe it's the world's toughest job at all when you 're committed to it.

talaniman
Dec 11, 2012, 10:20 AM
What part of love, support, and guidance do you have a problem with? If cheating and stealing is the only way to feed yourself, or family, that's what you will do, if you don't know better.

Its like when YOU said Obama was eliminating work requirements for public assistance and it was actually the states request to allow for more flexible help before the requirements could be implemented.

Now you say its government that encourages this desperate behavior by some that leads to dependence. I say it doesn't. If there is no intervention in this way of thinking, it will not change. Charity can only do so much as they are limited, and government is the option of last resort, but if you make it the problem then you destroy the ONLY option for some.

tomder55
Dec 11, 2012, 10:46 AM
Great nations are never impoverished by private, though they sometimes are by public prodigality and misconduct. The whole, or almost the whole public revenue, is in most countries employed in maintaining unproductive hands…Such people, as they themselves produce nothing, are all maintained by the produce of other men's labour. When multiplied, therefore, to an unnecessary number, they may in a particular year consume so great a share of this produce, as not to leave a sufficiency for maintaining the productive labourers, who should reproduce it next year… Those unproductive hands, who should be maintained by a part only of the spare revenue of the people, may consume so great a share of their whole revenue, and thereby oblige so great a number to encroach upon their capitals, upon the funds destined for the maintenance of productive labour, that all the frugality and good conduct of individuals may not be able to compensate the waste and degradation of produce occasioned by this violent and forced encroachment.

Adam Smith 'The Wealth of Nations, Book II, Chapter III, para 30 '

speechlesstx
Dec 11, 2012, 10:49 AM
What part of love, support, and guidance do you have a problem with? If cheating and stealing is the only way to feed yourself, or family, thats what you will do, if you don't know better.

Its like when YOU said Obama was eliminating work requirements for public assistance and it was actually the states request to allow for more flexible help before the requirements could be implemented.

Now you say its government that encourages this desperate behavior by some that leads to dependence. I say it doesn't. If there is no intervention in this way of thinking, it will not change. Charity can only do so much as they are limited, and government is the option of last resort, but if you make it the problem then you destroy the ONLY option for some.

Blah, blah, blah. You are a broken record.

NeedKarma
Dec 11, 2012, 11:03 AM
Adam Smith 'The Wealth of Nations, Book II, Chapter III, para 30The problem has been pointed out and defined ad nauseum but possible solutions aren't very forthcoming.

speechlesstx
Dec 11, 2012, 11:39 AM
The problem has been pointed out and defined ad nauseum but possible solutions aren't very forthcoming.

It's not as if any of my fellow American libs here were willing to engage in an honest discussion anyway other than to say reduce teen pregnancies. Wow.

Wondergirl
Dec 11, 2012, 11:49 AM
It's not as if any of my fellow American libs here were willing to engage in an honest discussion anyway other than to say reduce teen pregnancies. Wow.
It is one suggestion. One. What is your solution?

tomder55
Dec 11, 2012, 11:57 AM
I have no answers to the problems caused by our move to a socialist state It would appear that the majority of people everywhere are attracted to the idea of getting something for nothing, at someone else's expense.

Wondergirl
Dec 11, 2012, 12:05 PM
It would appear that the majority of people everywhere are attracted to the idea of getting something for nothing, at someone else's expense.
And you know this how?

NeedKarma
Dec 11, 2012, 12:13 PM
I don't think he knows what socialism is other than trying to turn the word into a pejorative.

paraclete
Dec 11, 2012, 12:30 PM
It would appear that the majority of people everywhere are attracted to the idea of getting something for nothing, at someone else's expense.

Yes how's that going for you? If as you say this is the majority opinion, in a democracy the majority rules and so there isn't a problem unless you let it get out of hand, such as in Greece. Let's face it, Tom, business gets something at someoneelse's expense through government subsidy, you have a whole lobbying industry working hard to achieve just such an objective, as well as your representatives and senators and you think this is socialism. No, you are bleating because the poor and underpriviliged might get part of the pie

speechlesstx
Dec 11, 2012, 01:18 PM
Yes how's that going for you? If as you say this is the majority opinion, in a democracy the majority rules and so there isn't a problem unless you let it get out of hand, such as in Greece. Let's face it, Tom, business gets something at someoneelse's expense through government subsidy, you have a whole lobbying industry working hard to achieve just such an objective, as well as your representatives and senators and you think this is socialism. No, you are bleating because the poor and underpriviliged might get part of the pie

I want everyone to have part of the pie. Making a pie takes work, eating one someone else made requires little effort.

Speaking of lobbying, raising taxes leads to more of it (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/robert-samuelson-the-death-of-tax-reform/2012/12/06/5c39ba86-3fe7-11e2-bca3-aadc9b7e29c5_story.html).


As important, many politicians support tax breaks for favored groups (the elderly, the poor, small business) and causes (homeownership, attending college, “green” industries). This enhances their power. The man who really pronounced the death sentence for the Tax Reform Act of 1986 was Bill Clinton, who increased the top rate to 39.6 percent rather than broadening the base.As the top rate rose, so did the value of generating new tax breaks. Ironically, many of the people who complain the loudest about Washington influence-peddling and lobbying are the same people who support higher tax rates, which stimulate more influence-peddling and lobbying.

But hey, at least Obama can fulfill a campaign promise.

P.S. Again France leads the way in teaching us about high tax rates...


French actor Depardieu seeks Belgian residency: mayor

Senesael said Depardieu would join some 2,800 French living in the same area a few minutes drive from the border, including the Mulliez family, owners of French hypermarket chain Auchan and Decathlon sports stores, who have lived there for years.

Belgian residents do not pay wealth tax, which in France is now slapped on individuals with assets over 1.3 million euros, nor do they pay capital gains tax on the sale of shares.

I can't imagine him not wanting to stick around while his country taxes him at 75 percent, can you? The Socialist mayor of Paris just doesn't think he's being generous any more (http://www.france24.com/en/20121210-critics-savage-depardieus-new-role-tax-exile).


“It is sad because he is a great actor and someone I know and like,” said Bertrand Delanoe, the Socialist mayor of Paris. “He is a generous man but in this instance he is not showing that.”

Damn greedy people. What are you going to do?

tomder55
Dec 11, 2012, 01:25 PM
let's face it, Tom, business gets something at someoneelse's expense through government subsidy, you have a whole lobbying industry working hard to achieve just such an objective, as well as your representatives and senators and you think this is socialism. No, you are bleating because the poor and underpriviliged might get part of the pie
You know my position on that ;so it is not a valid counter-argument and does not at all address the fact that the biggest breakdown in society has coincided with dependency on the leviathian state... socialist or otherwise . Call it progressive if you're more comfortable with that. .

TUT317
Dec 11, 2012, 01:33 PM
Yes how's that going for you? If as you say this is the majority opinion, in a democracy the majority rules and so there isn't a problem unless you let it get out of hand, such as in Greece. let's face it, Tom, business gets something at someoneelse's expense through government subsidy, you have a whole lobbying industry working hard to achieve just such an objective, as well as your representatives and senators and you think this is socialism. no, you are bleating because the poor and underpriviliged might get part of the pie



Exactly.

Let's talk about Steve's bigger picture and Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations. Smith says, "The authority of riches...is perhaps in the rudest age of society which admits of any considerable inequality of fortune"

Smith is talking about the unproductive labour. The managers, technocrats, and other specialists that make living off productive labour. The rudeness here is the belief that one unproductive part of society is dragging the country down. It is the rent-seeks that will turn us into a third world country. The Leviathan state serves the wealthy just as much as it serves the poor.

That's a more complete picture.


Tut

paraclete
Dec 11, 2012, 01:36 PM
I want everyone to have part of the pie. Making a pie takes work, eating one someone else made requires little effort.

Speaking of lobbying, raising taxes leads to more of it (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/robert-samuelson-the-death-of-tax-reform/2012/12/06/5c39ba86-3fe7-11e2-bca3-aadc9b7e29c5_story.html).



But hey, at least Obama can fulfill a campaign promise.

P.S. Again France leads the way in teaching us about high tax rates...



I can't imagine him not wanting to stick around while his country taxes him at 75 percent, can you? The Socialist mayor of Paris just doesn't think he's being generous any more (http://www.france24.com/en/20121210-critics-savage-depardieus-new-role-tax-exile).



Damn greedy people. What are you gonna do?

Hi speech

Let's avoid the issue of who made the pie for a moment, this is really about paying for benefits of various Kinds (the pie you have already eaten) which have been bought with borrowed money. A large part of the pie goes to paying the interest and no part of the pie goes to repaying the debt. What we hear are arguments as to why we should bake a bigger pie.

The greedy people, ie; those in higher income brackets and with big assets, think the pie belongs to them. What you have to do is reform, and as you can see in Europe having taxation systems which aren't uniform in neighbouring states is an incentive to decamp and avoid reform. So what you need is a uniform taxation system. Everyone pays the same no matter where they live.

There is a cure for this and I'm sure you have heard of it. It is called inflation. That is where you get a bigger pie full of hot air

Wondergirl
Dec 11, 2012, 01:37 PM
you know my position on that ;so it is not a valid counter-argument and does not at all address the fact that the biggest breakdown in society has coincided with dependency on the leviathian state ....socialist or otherwise . Call it progressive if you're more comfortable with that . .
If those job creators would create some jobs and stop sending them overseas to countries that I now have to call to get computer or cell phone problems fixed, that dependency would fade away.

paraclete
Dec 11, 2012, 02:02 PM
If those job creators would create some jobs and stop sending them overseas to countries that I now have to call to get computer or cell phone problems fixed, that dependency would fade away.

But its called trade and it is part of foreign policy to make other dependent upon your business. Do you want to reverse the foreign policy gains of all those years? I mean it is only fair that those who make the product should have a part in solving the problems. If only. The thing is you have to realise that the innovation that makes those products cheap and available didn't necessarily come from your nation. You want to create jobs, do something no one has done before, use raw materials you have to mine and process yourselves or just focus on yourselves, put some of that brain power you have invested in colleges to work. You see you were great when the innovation was home grown, the car industry, the aircraft industry, the oil industry, skyscrapers but the nation building has been done, you don't need as much innovation and the lowly paid jobs, they have left

TUT317
Dec 11, 2012, 02:02 PM
you know my position on that ;so it is not a valid counter-argument and does not at all address the fact that the biggest breakdown in society has coincided with dependency on the leviathian state ....socialist or otherwise . Call it progressive if you're more comfortable with that . .



I'm glad you said, "socialist or otherwise". It is the otherwise bit that seems to be ignored when looking at the bigger picture.

talaniman
Dec 11, 2012, 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by tomder55
You know my position on that ;so it is not a valid counter-argument and does not at all address the fact that the biggest breakdown in society has coincided with dependency on the leviathian state... socialist or otherwise . Call it progressive if you're more comfortable with that. .

The bigget crisis in society is when greedy rich guys tank the economy.

paraclete
Dec 11, 2012, 02:07 PM
Yes it isn't just the socialist state that spends itsself into bankruptcy, republican states have a history of doing the same thing. I think it has something to do with concentration of power in the hands of one person

speechlesstx
Dec 11, 2012, 02:11 PM
If those job creators would create some jobs and stop sending them overseas to countries that I now have to call to get computer or cell phone problems fixed, that dependency would fade away.

One of Obama's green energy successes just went to... China.

Chinese company buys battery maker that got recovery funds (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/chinese-company-buys-battery-maker-that-got-recovery-funds/2012/12/09/9f35a4fc-4240-11e2-8061-253bccfc7532_story.html)

speechlesstx
Dec 11, 2012, 02:11 PM
The bigget crisis in society is when greedy rich guys tank the economy.

And yet you reelected them.

FYI...

Dem Senators Ask Delay in Medical Device Tax (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/335396/dem-senators-ask-delay-medical-device-tax-wesley-j-smith)

Why? Raising taxes costs jobs? Really?

talaniman
Dec 11, 2012, 02:16 PM
Rich guys aren't elected or re elected, and the right is as corrupt as the left when it comes to being greedy, or helping the greedy rip us off.

speechlesstx
Dec 11, 2012, 02:24 PM
Rich guys aren't elected or re elected


The 50 Richest Members of Congress (2011) (http://www.rollcall.com/50richest/the-50-richest-members-of-congress-112th.html)

1. Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas) $294.21 Million
2. Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) $220.40 Million
3. Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) $193.07 Million
4. Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-W.Va.) $81.63 Million
5. Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.) $76.30 Million
6. Rep. Jared Polis (D-Colo.) $65.91 Million
7. Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) $55.07 Million
8. Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) $52.93* Million
9. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) $45.39 Million
10. Rep. Vern Buchanan (R-Fla.) $44.21 Million
11. Rep. Jim Renacci (R-Ohio) $35.87* Million
12. Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) $35.20 Million
13. Rep. Rick Berg (R-N.D.) $21.60* Million
14. Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) $21.18 Million
15. Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-N.J.) $20.35 Million
16. Sen. James Risch (R-Idaho) $19.78 Million
17. Rep. Gary Miller (R-Calif.) $17.45 Million
18. Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) $17.00 Million
19. Rep. Kenny Marchant (R-Texas) $16.45 Million
20. Rep. Nita Lowey (D-N.Y.) $15.46 Million
21. Rep. Richard Hanna (R-N.Y.) $13.73** Million
22. Rep. Mike Kelly (R-Pa.) $11.90* Million
23. Rep. Trent Franks (R-Ariz.) $11.60 Million
24. Rep. Scott Rigell (R-Va.) $10.69* Million
25. Rep. Diane Black (R-Tenn.) $10.63* Million
26. Rep. Tom Petri (R-Wis.) $10.60 Million
27. Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) $10.38 Million
28. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) $10.35 Million
29. Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) $10.28 Million
30. Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.) $10.14 Million
31. Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) $10.14***Million
32. Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) $9.88 Million
33. Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) $9.84 Million
34. Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.) $9.43 Million
35. Rep. Nan Hayworth (R-N.Y.) $9.35* Million
36. Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-Nev.) $9.29 Million
37. Sen. Herb Kohl (D-Wis.) $9.23 Million
38. Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) $8.53 Million
39. Rep. Blake Farenthold (R-Texas) $8.51* Million
40. Rep. John Campbell (R-Calif.) $8.44 Million
41. Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) $8.18* Million
42. Rep. Steve Pearce (R-N.M.) $8.03* Million
43. Sen. John Hoeven (R-N.D.) $7.94* Million
44. Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.) $7.93 Million
45. Rep. Bill Flores (R-Texas) $7.71* Million
46. Sen. Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.) $7.41 Million
47. Sen. Kay Hagan (D-N.C.) $7.06 Million
48. Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) $6.56 Million
49. Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) $6.47 Million
50. Rep. Randy Neugebauer (R-Texas) $6.21 Million

7 of the top 10 are Democrats, imagine that. How many times combined have they been elected I wonder? Or are these guys not rich enough to qualify as rich and greedy?

paraclete
Dec 11, 2012, 02:29 PM
Just looking after their interests

Wondergirl
Dec 11, 2012, 02:30 PM
One of Obama's green energy successes just went to....China.

Chinese company buys battery maker that got recovery funds (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/chinese-company-buys-battery-maker-that-got-recovery-funds/2012/12/09/9f35a4fc-4240-11e2-8061-253bccfc7532_story.html)
That's not Obama's fault.

Why is the Massachusetts company bankrupt?***

"Wanxiang’s top executive and an Energy Department spokesman said last week that the point of the economic stimulus grant was to create jobs by building a Michigan manufacturing facility, which Wanxiang said it plans to keep open."

"Wanxiang would not acquire A123’s Ann Arbor, Mich.-based government business, which includes all of its U.S. military contracts. Those would be acquired for $2.25 million by Navitas Systems, a Woodridge, Ill.-based [minutes from Wondergirl] provider of energy storage products for commercial, industrial and government agency customers."

***ADDED "[A123's] financial stability has been in question for more than a year. The company suffered a major setback when it had to recall defective batteries in Fisker cars. And despite orders from carmakers, A123 could not generate sufficient revenue or profit from the slowly growing market for electric vehicles." (10/16/2012, NYT)

speechlesstx
Dec 11, 2012, 02:53 PM
That's not Obama's fault.

How much of that $133 million taxpayer dollars his administration gave them might we see returned?

NeedKarma
Dec 11, 2012, 03:00 PM
How much of that $133 million taxpayer dollars his administration gave them might we see returned?Is that the standard procedure where a company receives grants and fails afterwards?

Wondergirl
Dec 11, 2012, 03:02 PM
How much of that $133 million taxpayer dollars his administration gave them might we see returned?
Why weren't you buying an electric car?

paraclete
Dec 11, 2012, 03:04 PM
Just so you know I drove an electric car once, a very disconcerting experience

tomder55
Dec 11, 2012, 04:26 PM
republican states have a history of doing the same thing. I think it has something to do with concentration of power in the hands of one person
Nope it has more to do with Alexander Fraser Tytler's warning .

paraclete
Dec 11, 2012, 06:07 PM
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to selfishness;
From selfishness to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."
~ Alexander Fraser Tytler

Then according to his timetable you have run your course, although you might just have one or two steps to go

tomder55
Dec 12, 2012, 05:21 AM
Yup ;apparently we are on the' from apathy to dependence' step.

speechlesstx
Dec 12, 2012, 06:41 AM
Why weren't you buying an electric car?

Why would I want to waste $30,000?

speechlesstx
Dec 13, 2012, 07:18 AM
The National Counterterrorism Center now apparently has a "PreCrime" department, tasked with scouring data on you and me to prevent future crimes. They're even sharing it with foreign governments.


Top U.S. intelligence officials gathered in the White House Situation Room in March to debate a controversial proposal (http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424127887324478304578171623040640006-lMyQjAxMTAyMDEwMjExNDIyWj.html?mod=wsj_valetbottom _email). Counterterrorism officials wanted to create a government dragnet, sweeping up millions of records about U.S. citizens—even people suspected of no crime.

Not everyone was on board. "This is a sea change in the way that the government interacts with the general public," Mary Ellen Callahan, chief privacy officer of the Department of Homeland Security, argued in the meeting, according to people familiar with the discussions.

A week later, the attorney general signed the changes into effect.

Through Freedom of Information Act requests and interviews with officials at numerous agencies, The Wall Street Journal has reconstructed the clash over the counterterrorism program within the administration of President Barack Obama. The debate was a confrontation between some who viewed it as a matter of efficiency—how long to keep data, for instance, or where it should be stored—and others who saw it as granting authority for unprecedented government surveillance of U.S. citizens.

The rules now allow the little-known National Counterterrorism Center to examine the government files of U.S. citizens for possible criminal behavior, even if there is no reason to suspect them. That is a departure from past practice, which barred the agency from storing information about ordinary Americans unless a person was a terror suspect or related to an investigation.

Now, NCTC can copy entire government databases—flight records, casino-employee lists, the names of Americans hosting foreign-exchange students and many others. The agency has new authority to keep data about innocent U.S. citizens for up to five years, and to analyze it for suspicious patterns of behavior. Previously, both were prohibited. Data about Americans "reasonably believed to constitute terrorism information" may be permanently retained.

The changes also allow databases of U.S. civilian information to be given to foreign governments for analysis of their own. In effect, U.S. and foreign governments would be using the information to look for clues that people might commit future crimes.

If only they had the Precogs. So now the Obama admin wants to track our every move. Is that a drone I hear?

excon
Dec 13, 2012, 07:42 AM
Hello again, Steve:


If only they had the Precogs. So now the Obama admin wants to track our every move. Is that a drone I hear?If George W. Bush would have PRESERVED our Fourth Amendment rights, there would be NO Obama spies today.

You guys really DO suffer from memory loss. But, that's why I'm here.

Excon

PS> I suppose if he tortured somebody you'd come down on him hard, wouldn't you? Bwa, ha ha ha..

NeedKarma
Dec 13, 2012, 07:44 AM
now apparently has a "PreCrime" department

You've had that since 9/11. Your conversations and emails have been listened to since then.

speechlesstx
Dec 13, 2012, 09:10 AM
Hello again, Steve:

If George W. Bush would have PRESERVED our Fourth Amendment rights, there would be NO Obama spies today.

You guys really DO suffer from memory loss. But, that's why I'm here.

Nah, anyone could have predicted your response.

speechlesstx
Dec 13, 2012, 09:14 AM
You've had that since 9/11. Your conversations and emails have been listened to since then.

This goes way, way, beyond scanning communications.

NeedKarma
Dec 13, 2012, 09:32 AM
So does the Patriot Act.

speechlesstx
Dec 13, 2012, 09:48 AM
So does the Patriot Act.

This goes way, way beyond the Patriot Act (passed by Congress). The administration bypassed congress and gave itself unilateral authority to mine the data of innocent Americans and share it with other countries. The Patriot Act at least has some safeguards in place. They can't just wiretap any ol' American citizen, they still have to go through the courts.

NeedKarma
Dec 13, 2012, 09:51 AM
Wrong: Patriot Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#Controversy)

Also the organization charged with it is Counterterrorism Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Counterterrorism_Center) enacted under Bush.

If you don't have anything to hide why are you worried?

tomder55
Dec 13, 2012, 10:20 AM
And we all know that the biggest threat to the country is those right wing extremists in funny tri-cornered hats .

(U//FOUO) DHS/I&A will be working with its state and local partners over the next several months to ascertain with greater regional specificity the rise in rightwing extremist activity in the United States, with a particular emphasis on the political, economic, and social factors that drive rightwing extremist radicalization.

Homeland Security Report Warns Of Rising Right-Wing Extremism (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/homeland-security-report_n_186834.html)

speechlesstx
Dec 13, 2012, 11:01 AM
Wrong: Patriot Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act#Controversy)

Also the organization charged with it is Counterterrorism Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Counterterrorism_Center) enacted under Bush.

If you don't have anything to hide why are you worried?

a) You didn't even read the Wikipedia article. You really should do such things before counting on something to prove me wrong. Read the section on Title II. The courts are still involved.

b) "The National Counterterrorism Center" was the first four words of my post, which also noted "the attorney general signed the changes into effect." That would be Eric Holder, Obama's AG.

tomder55
Dec 13, 2012, 02:27 PM
I wonder how that new law mandating black boxes in all new autos fits in with the new Precogs ?

Horace Cooper, an analyst with the National Center for Public Policy Research, writes in a recently published analysis that privacy are inevitable because "once the law goes into effect, the DOT will then act to tell us exactly what data the EDRs will collect and what devices can be used to access the data."

Analyst worries auto black boxes invite privacy abuse by officials - National Cars | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/article/analyst-worries-auto-black-boxes-invite-privacy-abuse-by-officials)

So just like Obamacare . They have to pass the law so we can find out what is in it.

But is there a double standard here ? Well yes because while the adm is looking to know everything we do ;including how and where we drive ; they are still stonewalling on Benghazi .

Congressman Jason Chaffetz said that he has been ‘thwarted’ by the State Department from seeing any Americans who survived the attack in Benghazi .He is talking about the 30 or so survivors who have disappeared off the face of the planet.


My understanding is that we still have some people in the hospital. I’d like to visit with them and wish them nothing but the best but the State Department has seen it unfit for me to know who those people are—or even how many there are. I don’t know who they are. I don’t know where they live. I don’t know what state they’re from. I don’t even know how many there are. It doesn’t seem right to me.

This is so patently different than any other experience I’ve had.

Chaffetz: State Dept Hiding Benghazi Survivors (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/12/12/Chaffetz-Benghazi-State-Dept)

Maybe the adm doesn't know what really happened in Benghazi (guffaw ) . Maybe if they used their data bases ,their black boxes ,their drones to keep tabs on our enemies instead of our driving habits...

paraclete
Dec 13, 2012, 03:34 PM
Maybe the adm doesn't know what really happened in Benghazi (guffaw ) . Maybe if they used their data bases ,their black boxes ,their drones to keep tabs on our enemies instead of our driving habits ........

Now there is a thought, but then since the major attack came from within, perhaps they have found the real enemy

speechlesstx
Dec 14, 2012, 06:43 AM
Yep, got to love people who think blacks have to be a certain kind of black to actually be black. On ESPN, Rob Parker questioned RGIII's blackness (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2012/12/13/rob-parker-on-rgiiis-blackness/). No, really.


Robert Griffin III has been asked about his race repeatedly this season. He has not, to my knowledge, ever brought the subject up himself. Every time he’s been asked about it, he has managed to appear thoughtful and considerate without possibly offending anyone.

I’m not sure he’s ever handled the race question better than on last week’s Comcast SportsNet special, when Chick Hernandez talked about being a black quarterback in D.C.

“Whenever you can relate to the population of the team that you play for, I think it makes it that much more special,” Griffin said. “I don’t play too much into the color game, because I don’t want to be the best African American quarterback, I want to be the best quarterback."

...

Well. This led to a Thursday discussion on First Take, ESPN’s abysmal debate program. Panelist Rob Parker was asked, ‘What does this say about RGIII?”

“This is an interesting topic,” Parker said. “For me, personally, just me, this throws up a red flag, what I keep hearing. And I don’t know who’s asking the questions, but we’ve heard a couple of times now of a black guy kind of distancing himself away from black people.

“I understand the whole story of I just want to be the best,” Parker continued. “Nobody’s out on the field saying to themselves, I want to be the best black quarterback. You’re just playing football, right? You want to be the best, you want to throw the most touchdowns and have the most yards and win the most games. Nobody is [thinking] that.

“But time and time we keep hearing this, so it just makes me wonder deeper about him,” Parker went on. “And I’ve talked to some people down in Washington D.C. friends of mine, who are around and at some of the press conferences, people I’ve known for a long time. But my question, which is just a straight honest question. Is he a brother, or is he a cornball brother?”

What does that mean, Parker was asked.

“Well, [that] he’s black, he kind of does his thing, but he’s not really down with the cause, he’s not one of us,” Parker explained. “He’s kind of black, but he’s not really the guy you’d really want to hang out with, because he’s off to do something else.”

Why is that your question, Parker was asked.

“Well, because I want to find out about him,” Parker said. “I don’t know, because I keep hearing these things. We all know he has a white fiancée. There was all this talk about he’s a Republican, which, there’s no information [about that] at all. I’m just trying to dig deeper as to why he has an issue. Because we did find out with Tiger Woods, Tiger Woods was like I’ve got black skin but don’t call me black. So people got to wondering about Tiger Woods early on.”

Then Skip Bayless asked Parker about RGIII’s braids.

“Now that’s different,” Parker said. “To me, that’s very urban and makes you feel like…wearing braids, you’re a brother. You’re a brother if you’ve got braids on.”

Eeek! He may be a Republican? Oh my...

tomder55
Dec 14, 2012, 07:22 AM
Yeah I have a problem with his skin color. He plays for the Redskins. Other than that he seems like a great guy . Parker's comments is further evidence where the real intolerance is in this country .

speechlesstx
Dec 14, 2012, 07:29 AM
Yeah I have a problem with his skin color. He plays for the Redskins. Other than that he seems like a great guy . Parker's comments is further evidence where the real intolerance is in this country .

We both have that same issue with color.

paraclete
Dec 14, 2012, 01:43 PM
Then get out of the sun

talaniman
Dec 14, 2012, 07:26 PM
A republican with braids and speed and a gun for an arm? Draft him!!

speechlesstx
Dec 21, 2012, 08:39 AM
It's come to this (http://reason.com/reasontv/2012/12/20/the-fall-of-tams-6-how-la-regulated-a-bu). Tam's Burgers #6, an LA fixture for 30 years has been forced to close their doors. Apparently the family business was a "public nuisance", as in the police can't control crime in the neighborhood so the city has regulated and zoned him out of business.

B7YhWNqIU1g


Located on the corner of Figueroa and 101st Street in South Central Los Angeles, Tam's Burgers has been a part of the neighborhood for almost thirty years. Nick Benetatos took over the restaurant in the late '80s after his father retired. Tam's has withstood multiple recessions and even the 1992 LA riots.

"When the markets were burned down, liquor stores were burned down, everything was burned down, people had nowhere to go, they came to us. We were handing out loaves of bread for free." says Benetatos. "We have much love for the community. And the community obviously has much love for us."

But Tam's is now facing its most daunting challenge yet: being deemed a "public nuisance" by the city of LA. The Los Angeles Police Department believes that Tam's is a magnet for drug dealers, prostitutes and violent criminals.

"It has a nexus and a connection to a disproportionate amount of criminal activity," says Detective Eric Moore, head of LAPD's Nuisance Abatement unit.

But Benetatos says that he is simply making the best of a tough situation. He's even tried to work with LAPD before, honoring their requests that he remove payphones on the property and remove tables for outdoor seating, which he says resulted in a 15 percent decline in revenues. The city's zoning board has since ordered him to comply with 22 separate conditions, such as hiring a full-time security guard, fencing in the entire property and installing a security camera that links directly to LAPD's electronic surveillance system. Benetatos says that the cost of compliance would put him out of business.

"The LAPD wants to control my business and run it in their view of how it should be run, and I'm trying to run it in the view that I've been here for 30 years and know how it should be run, and I'm successful," says Benetatos, who appealed the zoning board's conditions at a recent city council meeting.

You're welcome to open shop in Amarillo Mr. Benetatos, we can't have too many good burger places.

speechlesstx
Jan 3, 2013, 07:06 AM
The Goracle and his partners have apparently agreed to sell his largely unwatched Current TV to Al Jazeera. No, really.


Al Jazeera, the pan-Arab news giant, has long tried to convince Americans that it is a legitimate news organization, not a parrot of Middle Eastern propaganda or something more sinister.

It just bought itself 40 million more chances to make its case. (http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/al-jazeera-said-to-be-acquiring-current-tv/?smid=tw-share)

Al Jazeera on Wednesday announced a deal to take over Current TV, the low-rated cable channel that was founded by Al Gore, a former vice president, and his business partners seven years ago. Al Jazeera plans to shut Current and start an English-language channel, which will be available in more than 40 million homes, with newscasts emanating from both New York and Doha, Qatar.

For Al Jazeera, which is financed by the government of Qatar, the acquisition is a coming of age moment. A decade ago, Al Jazeera’s flagship Arabic-language channel was reviled by American politicians for showing videotapes from Al Qaeda members and sympathizers. Now the news operation is buying an American channel, having convinced Mr. Gore and the other owners of Current that it has the journalistic muscle and the money to compete head-to-head with CNN and other news channels in the United States.

Al Jazeera did not disclose the purchase price, but people with direct knowledge of the deal pegged it at around $500 million, indicating a $100 million payout for Mr. Gore, who owned 20 percent of Current. Mr. Gore and his partners were eager to complete the deal by Dec. 31, lest it be subject to higher tax rates that took effect on Jan. 1, according to several people who insisted on anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly. But the deal was not signed until Wednesday.

The guru of global warming alarmism has just pocketed an estimated $100 million from selling to an outfit financed by a middle eastern government built on oil wealth. And of course they wanted to complete the deal by Dec 31st to avoid higher taxes.

You can't make this stuff up...

NeedKarma
Jan 3, 2013, 07:11 AM
Score one for entrepreneurship!

excon
Jan 3, 2013, 07:13 AM
Hello again, Steve:


You can't make this stuff up... So, the free market is GOOD, unless a Democrat engages in it...

Excon

NeedKarma
Jan 3, 2013, 07:14 AM
so, the free market is good, unless a democrat engages in it... exactly!

tomder55
Jan 3, 2013, 07:30 AM
Don't know why Al Jazeera would want to purchase it . Al Jazeera has a many more viewers.

speechlesstx
Jan 3, 2013, 07:44 AM
Hello again, Steve:

So, the free market is GOOD, unless a Democrat engages in it...

excon

As usual you reach the wrong conclusion. I have no problem with The Goracle wanting to make money. I have a problem with his blatant hypocrisy - kind of like all these people running around with armed guards wanting to take away our guns.

excon
Jan 3, 2013, 07:55 AM
Hello again, Steve:


As usual you reach the wrong conclusion.I don't know. When I'm in the marketplace, the only factor I consider is whether the guy I'm selling stuff to, HAS the money to pay for it. MY decisions AREN'T based on morals.

I understand that it's easy for a worker bee like you, who has NEVER risked his own capital, to sit on the sidelines and criticize...

Excon

PS> (edited) As I think about it, if I considered the MORALS of the people I buy from, or sell to, I'd NEVER buy or sell ANYTHING... Most people are a$$holes.

speechlesstx
Jan 3, 2013, 08:09 AM
Hello again, Steve:

I don't know. When I'm in the marketplace, the only factor I consider is whether the guy I'm selling stuff to, HAS the money to pay for it. MY decisions AREN'T based on morals.

And I'm sure if some evangelical preacher dude in say, Colorado, that makes a name for himself preaching against things like sexual immorality was caught patronizing hookers you wouldn't chastise him would you?


I understand that it's easy for a worker bee like you, who has NEVER risked his own capital, to sit on the sidelines and criticize...

You have no idea what I've done.

excon
Jan 3, 2013, 08:37 AM
Hello again, Steve:


And I'm sure if some evangelical preacher dude in say, Colorado, that makes a name for himself preaching against things like sexual immorality was caught patronizing hookers you wouldn't chastise him would you?Of course, I'd chastise him... AND, if he built a good TV, I'd BUY me one.

Excon

speechlesstx
Jan 3, 2013, 09:27 AM
Hello again, Steve:

Of course, I'd chastise him...

Well there you go...

tomder55
Jan 3, 2013, 11:42 AM
And the Goracle is tax savvy... he insisted that the sale be completed before Jan 1 to avoid the extra taxes .

NeedKarma
Jan 3, 2013, 11:46 AM
Maybe he even has offshore tax havens.

tomder55
Jan 3, 2013, 11:53 AM
He does ;and not only that ,he siphons off taxpayer dollars from subsidies to Fisker... a company in which he has ownership shares .

NeedKarma
Jan 3, 2013, 11:56 AM
So he's a job creator. You need more of those!

excon
Jan 3, 2013, 12:03 PM
Hello again, tom:


he insisted that the sale be completed before Jan 1 to avoid the extra taxes .OMG! What a bastard...

Excon

dontknownuthin
Jan 3, 2013, 12:20 PM
And I'm sure if some evangelical preacher dude in say, Colorado, that makes a name for himself preaching against things like sexual immorality was caught patronizing hookers you wouldn't chastise him would you?



You have no idea what I've done.

A few posters on here, including Excon, like to summarize the lives of total strangers in these weird, vitriolic rants instead of seriously considering that other people who disagree with them might actually have a valid point that they had yet to consider.

How in God's green earth would someone know whether someone else on a blog has ever taken an investment risk? Stupid.

While I am quite moderate in my politics, I am moving further and further right every day because I'm finding the arguments of the left are more like tantrums than logical discussions. There's this oblivious ignorance to Obama's shortcomings like I've never seen in my lifetime. People are just dazzled by the guy even when he's standing in front of them announcing his failures, as he did the other day. He came on television in the 11th hour of this financial crisis, stirring the pot and annoying the other side instead of working on building consensus. He created the emergency by refusing to discuss the fiscal cliff issues until the campaign was over. And as he stood there stammering and stuttering and making absolutely no sense about the looming deadline not likely being met, his supporters stood around him with stepford-wives grins, applauding.

And these ridiculous cheap shots - the argument that Romney has Aspbergers is absolutely ridiculous. There is no indication whatsoever that he has any type of personality disorder, anything even remotely approaching any diagnoses on the autism spectrum. He has never had any difficulty accepting and following authority, managing administrative tasks in his work, fitting in socially, meeting social conventions or managing relationships. He was close to his parents, has a model marriage, great relationships with his children and grandchildren, long-standing business relationships and friendships, a great academic record, a record of volunteer service and a clear record of building consensus. I have also known several people diagnosed with Aspbergers and none of them could have operated within the leadership and supervisory structures in which Romney has thrived, not only as a leader but prior to his success, as a follower and student.

But if something outrageous is on the web from the left, people glom onto it like a life-raft.

Today to be at all reasonable, you really have to abandon the left - they've gone off the deep end.

talaniman
Jan 3, 2013, 01:09 PM
Nice cheap shots from a righties that has gone of he deep end. Typical conservative tactic, cry about the left in one sentence, then go off on a self righteous rant in the next.

dontknownuthin
Jan 3, 2013, 01:24 PM
The argument that Romney has Aspbergers is in the same category as that stupid Donald Trump's attacks on Obama about his marriage and citizenship - all dumb, all baseless.

speechlesstx
Jan 3, 2013, 01:29 PM
Nice cheap shots from a righties that has gone of he deep end. Typical conservative tactic, cry about the left in one sentence, then go off on a self righteous rant in the next.

Might be if it weren't so accurate.

Wondergirl
Jan 3, 2013, 01:39 PM
Suggesting that Romney has Asperger's is not a cheap shot. I have been married to a successful man with Asperger's for 45 years. He is smart and doing well financially, was at the top of the game in his career, is loyal to family, and has no shame in being tagged as Asperger's. It is not a personality disorder. In fact, he was relieved to learn he has Asperger's, having always wondered why he has some of the quirks he does and possesses the social reluctance he has. He thinks and feels and learns differently from us "normals" (neurotypicals)--is visual rather than auditory, is overly sensitive physically to touch and even to clothing tags, does not like change of any kind whether it be furniture being moved around or even the weather, has a narrow range of interests but excels in those he especially focuses on, doesn't think quickly on the spur of the moment but has to know ahead of time what he is going to say (and doesn't like surprise pushes off his topic). Yes, none of those say "Asperger's" per se, but if you put them and other certain characteristics all together, they form a syndrome that has become known as Asperger's, very high-functioning but quirky.

speechlesstx
Jan 3, 2013, 01:44 PM
Suggesting that Romney has Asperger's is not a cheap shot. I have been married to a successful man with Asperger's for 45 years. He is smart and doing well financially, was at the top of the game in his career, is loyal to family, and has no shame in being tagged as Asperger's. It is not a personality disorder. In fact, he was relieved to learn he has Asperger's, having always wondered why he has some of the quirks he does and possesses the social reluctance he has. He thinks and feels and learns differently from us "normals" (neurotypicals)--is visual rather than auditory, is overly sensitive physically to touch and even to clothing tags, does not like change of any kind whether it be furniture being moved around or even the weather, has a narrow range of interests but excels in those he especially focuses on, doesn't think quickly on the spur of the moment but has to know ahead of time what he is going to say (and doesn't like surprise pushes off his topic). Yes, none of those say "Asperger's" per se, but if you put them and other certain characteristics all together, they form a syndrome that has become known as Asperger's, very high-functioning but quirky.

Yes, it was a cheap shot.

Wondergirl
Jan 3, 2013, 01:48 PM
Yes, it was a cheap shot.
It certainly and very reasonable explains all the complaints people had over his attitudes and behavior. Then when his son Tagg came out with the information that his dad really had never wanted to be president, I went, "Ahhhh, now I'm convinced"--that wasn't really on his agenda because it didn't fit in with his plan for himself and his success.

speechlesstx
Jan 3, 2013, 01:59 PM
It certainly and very reasonable explains all the complaints people had over his attitudes and behavior. Then when his son Tagg came out with the information that his dad really had never wanted to be president, I went, "Ahhhh, now I'm convinced"--that wasn't really on his agenda because it didn't fit in with his plan for himself and his success.

No, it was a cheap shot (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2012/08/08/david-shuster-romney-must-have-some-form-autism-and-must-kill-his-wifes-#ixzz2Gx4uZ4qT).


DAVID SHUSTER: Every time you hear Mitt Romney speak these days I keep thinking about I have an uncle who specializes in the field of Asperger's, and people with autism, and has been making the point to me for several years that there’s some very brilliant creative people who have Asperger's and he’s suggested perhaps that Mitt Romney has some sort of form of Asperger's because he’s so socially inept in terms of being able to connect with people.

What he thinks is funny is really sort of not so funny. I sort of wonder if there is some sort of tic or something that he has or something that’s related to that. [... ]

CHRIS LAVOIE, Miller sidekick: He (Romney) has a bucket in his car and he just said hardware stuff.

STEPHANIE MILLER: He doesn’t know what a donut is.

SHUSTER: Yeah I bought a hammer to hit Rafalca over the head for getting you know 30th place after we took a $77,000 dollar tax write-off.

LAVOIE: Oh David Shuster!

MILLER: Oh David Louise Shuster! All right.

LAVOIE: Ha ha ha ha!

SHUSTER: I must say, I you know the Rafalca issue is really personally offended me because I was embarrassed. I don’t think our Olympians should be getting in 30th place and especially when they’re taxing tax write offs and if Mitt Romney is pleased of Rafalca proud of Rafalca then he’s got even more problems than he knows.


It was a cheap shot.