Hello,

I am a 16 yr old (11th grade) minor in NY state. My Mom has been accused of educational neglect through DSS/CPS and it was found to be indicated. We are going to court because the social worker lied (he implied he had seen the house when he hadn't yet, and said a doctor wouldn't suggest home teaching when the doctor himself hadn't made the decision), and he takes bits and pieces of what we've told him and puts them together to make his argument more sound; but the fact remains that we have poor attendance and it is harming my sister's educational progress. My sister (7th grade, 13 yrs old) has a PINS petition. I know that, if she doesn't show marked improvement in attendance, they will take her to court and she may go into foster care. She hasn't shown enough progress yet; she goes once in a week at maximum, is failing classes or has incompletes, and may have to repeat 7th grade because the school district won't have summer school this year. On the other hand, I switched recently to being homeschooled while the CPS/DSS report was being investigated. Since then, my attendance has improved (no absences yet) and I have all As (I did anyway in the public school, I just wasn't in school enough). We are looking to have my sister transferred to another district, a private Catholic school. My mom will not allow her to be homeschooled for a number of reasons. There is no physical or sexual abuse, though the social worker incorrectly says Mom hasn't taught us proper hygiene (a previous social worker said we are at ages where we are responsible for our hygiene, so I don't believe this will be an issue?)

My questions are: How likely is it that DSS/CPS will take my sister and me away from my Mom and put me in foster care, whether with my Dad (who has partial custody) or a relative or someone else? How likely is it that my sister will be taken because of PINS given the information above? How much improvement would be needed to keep her in the home? If someone takes my sister away, through PINS or DSS, would I go too? Will DSS take only my sister away, or me too, according to what the court finds? And, if foster care is only a small possibility, what will most likely happen? I know DSS/CPS is required to give services; what can they provide for my sister that PINS isn't giving?

Thank you very much; please let me know if more information is needed to answer questions.

Hello,

I am a 16 yr old (11th grade) minor in NY state. My Mom has been accused of educational neglect through DSS/CPS and it was found to be indicated. We are going to court because the social worker lied (he implied he had seen the house when he hadn't yet, and said a doctor wouldn't suggest home teaching when the doctor himself hadn't made the decision), and he takes bits and pieces of what we've told him and puts them together to make his argument more sound; but the fact remains that we have poor attendance and it is harming my sister's educational progress. My sister (7th grade, 13 yrs old) has a PINS petition. I know that, if she doesn't show marked improvement in attendance, they will take her to court and she may go into foster care. She hasn't shown enough progress yet; she goes once in a week at maximum, is failing classes or has incompletes, and may have to repeat 7th grade because the school district won't have summer school this year. On the other hand, I switched recently to being homeschooled while the CPS/DSS report was being investigated. Since then, my attendance has improved (no absences yet) and I have all As (I did anyway in the public school, I just wasn't in school enough). We are looking to have my sister transferred to another district, a private Catholic school. My mom will not allow her to be homeschooled for a number of reasons. There is no physical or sexual abuse, though the social worker incorrectly says Mom hasn't taught us proper hygeine (a previous social worker said we are at ages where we are responsible for our hygeine, so I don't believe this will be an issue?)

My questions are: How likely is it that DSS/CPS will take my sister and me away from my Mom and put me in foster care, whether with my Dad (who has partial custody) or a relative or someone else? How likely is it that my sister will be taken because of PINS given the information above? How much improvement would be needed to keep her in the home? If someone takes my sister away, through PINS or DSS, would I go too? Will DSS take only my sister away, or me too, according to what the court finds? And, if foster care is only a small possibility, what will most likely happen? I know DSS/CPS is required to give services; what can they provide for my sister that PINS isn't giving?

Thank you very much; please let me know if more information is needed to answer questions.


As far as the social worker is concerned - implying and saying/stating are two different things. I don't know why the social worker would misrepresent the facts. The foster care system in NY is absolutely overworked and social workers are trying desperately to keep minors IN the house, not take them OUT of the house. (My sister is, in fact, a social worker in NYS.)

Hard to tell what is likely to happen. There is no set rule book or guide book and each case is different. I assume your mother has custody by Court order of some sort. Why doesn't your father simply apply for and get custody of your sister and possibly you? It would change the circumstances and give you and her another try at things.

Your sister was mandated to meet certain conditions. If she did not - and it appears she did not - she could be taken out of the home. Where she would go is the Court's decision. No guarantees. How much improvement she needs to make should be stated clearly in the petition; if it was not, it should have been explained to her AND an adult. It sounds like a requirement is that she attend school and bring her grades up - and it sounds like she has failed at both.

Only one of you could be taken out of the home.

PINS isn't an entity - it's a Petition. Certain behavior can be ordered but there is no "PINS" entity that enforces it. That's the job of social services or some other, similar group.

Who filed the Petition?

The Southern tier is generally Allegany, Broome, Cattaraugus, Chemung, Delaware, Stueben and Tioga Counties - some of these Counties have been hit very hard by the economy. In those cases if your sister is able to get her act together the "system" will lean toward keeping/leaving her at home.

One other question - was an Attorney appointed to represent your sister/protect her interest when the PINS was filed and heard?

JudyKayTee,

I don't understand the social worker's actions, either. He is decent to my sister and me, but has been hostile towards my mom on the phone.

I have not seen the PINS petition/requirements; I will ask about that. I do know the school district filed the PINS petition.

We have a law guardian because of the divorce issues, but he wasn't involved in the PINS petition. Is that something you recommend? As far as I know, my sister has only met with the PINS officer and no one else has been involved besides school officials (vice principal).

Regarding my father: my sister and I, my sister especially, do not feel comfortable around him. We don't see his role in the divorce favorably, and, quite honestly, my sister is afraid of him and doesn't even want to see him on the court-ordered days (we do go of course). I believe the situation would be worse if she and/or I went there. If foster care is decided upon, I hope to ask relatives if they can take me in, and work from there.

Thank you for your input. I will see what the PINS petition papers say, and post that information soon.

Whoops... sorry, I'm new to this site. Please see my replies in the most recent post.

You may be able to take care of your hygiene, but as a minor, it is still the parent's responsibility to make sure it is taken care of, whether by you or her. Failure to do so could be claims for neglect.

Why are you/your sister afraid of your father? You stated there was no abuse. Is it because he makes you go to school? He enforces rules? In general, if one parent is un-fit and the other is deemed fit, they will try to place the children with one of the parents.

"but the fact remains that we have poor attendance and it is harming my sister's educational progress." This is what they are concerned about first and foremost. Why is your attendance so poor? You have the ability to turn this around...

You may be able to take care of your hygiene, but as a minor, it is still the parent's responsibility to make sure it is taken care of, whether by you or her. Failure to do so could be claims for neglect.

Why are you/your sister afraid of your father? You stated there was no abuse. Is it because he makes you go to school? He enforces rules? In general, if one parent is un-fit and the other is deemed fit, they will try to place the children with one of the parents.

"but the fact remains that we have poor attendance and it is harming my sister's educational progress." This is what they are concerned about first and foremost. Why is your attendance so poor? You have the ability to turn this around...


The sister is afraid of the father. I don't read that the OP is afraid of the father.

The OP is home schooled. It's the sister who (apparently) is not going.

In NY - where the OP is and where I am - WHO filed the PINS petition (and why) is important.

Hopefully the OP will come back and fill in the blanks.

Hello again, sorry for the delay.

JudyKayTee: I haven't been able to see the PINS petition yet, but I'm still working on it. Given the rest of the information, do you suggest that our law guardian get involved in the PINS petition in case it goes to court?

Again, (to clarify) the school filed the PINS petition because of excessive absences, which puts her in jeopardy of not passing, and repeating a grade.

LTLMRS: Why do you think the social worker said the hygiene was dismissed if it is more of our (my sister and my) concern now, as growing children? I'm just confused as to why the social worker would say that if it wasn't true. My mother has taught us proper hygiene and we have necessary supplies. Honestly, the hygiene question was probably called in by my father or put in the report by the social worker, who hasn't been completely honest with any of us and seems to be distorting the facts.

There is no abuse now, living with my mom. Abuse beforehand was verbal, so that situation is a little more controversial (less likely to prove, different opinions on what abuse is and who abused who, etc). My focus right now is to know what could happen and what my options are.

An adult I know who knows a retired social worker says if we do have to go into foster care (not through PINS, for my sister), they won't make us live with my father. The situation is very complicated, and right now, all that's necessary for this question is that going there is not really an option my sister or I would like to consider, given a choice.

Yes, I am homeschooled, and my sister isn't going. But, at the time the report was filed, I was still in public school with poor attendance. Since then, I've not been absent through the homeschooling. However, the social worker failed to mention that in his report, implying that the educational neglect still applied to both children. So, I think I am still going to be involved.

My sister doesn't attend much because of health problems. Unfortunately, some doctors and the social worker don't seem to see it as a real condition, saying it could be "faked" and used as an excuse. The condition is supposed to be grown out of, but it is made worse by stress, which right now, is extremely high. No one can completely prove when she has problems or when she doesn't have them, so it is mostly subject to opinion. I agree that it's a vicious circle that could be changed by attending more, but I am not the one absent, my sister is. My mom, the school, the social worker, the PINS officer, and many many people are trying to make her go, but ultimately it is her choice. If she is going to choose not to go to school, it will ultimately lie on her shoulders. I just don't want anyone else getting hurt badly, and I want her to go through as little trauma as possible. I understand why this is being brought up, but I really have no control over it. I am doing what I can to help.

My further questions: Is foster care, for me and/or my sister, something to be legitimately concerned about, or should I not worry about it so much? Suppose we finish the court trial, and the case remains indicated... what happens next?

Thank you very much for your replies and efforts so far. It is greatly appreciated.

Yes, if you can get the PINS Petition I would DEFINITELY do so. Too much information is never a problem! Thanks for repeating the info on who filed - I read it but missed it the second time through.

I do NOT see foster care for you as an issue. You seem to be getting things together. It's difficult to say where your sister is concerned. At this point the foster care system in NY is so overwhelmed that I would be more concerned about a youth home than foster care.

Can you talk to your sister, get her in line, explain to her how serious this is and how REALLY serious it could get?

At your age, in NY, you could certainly make a good case for why you do NOT want to live with your father. If you are sincere, without attitude (and, by the way, I am impressed - you show NO attitude on this board, a refreshing change) I think the Judge will listen to you and hear you.

It sounds like your Mom may be overwhelmed. Has she considered counselling for no other reason than to be able to say, "I went to counselling in order to keep my children with me"?

And, yes, get an Attorney involved in every step possible.

And keep us informed.

I tried talking to my sister, but she doesn't like talking about this subject in the first place, and she doesn't really listen to me. We've told her what's at stake, but I don't know how much it's made a difference. I think she's feeling a lot of strong emotions, but she either withdraws or attacks verbally and then withdraws, making it hard to talk to her... but I'm not giving up yet.

I talked to my mom a little about the PINS (still working on seeing the documents). She did say they (the school) are looking for 90% attendance, which is NOT being reached right now. That gives us some idea of how much improvement they are looking for.

My sister, my mom and I have all been in counseling for a few years, trying to deal with family issues, so we can certainly bring that up in court/to the lawyers.

I haven't seen the law guardian yet, but I did mention getting him involved in the PINS petition to my mom, and I will mention it to the law guardian when we see him.

I'll keep posting as more develops...

Please keep updating us. Sounds like your Mom is pretty much doing what she can do - as are you.

I hate to see your sister learn a lesson the hard way but you also have to worry about yourself, staying healthy, going forward.

Let us know -

We went to visit the law guardian recently. I told him I was being homeschooled, and he gave me some basic information about the case. I didn't get to say much, so I'm going to write down some points to tell him. One thing he did mention is that the case may take 6-12 months or more (even if it goes smoothly). On another note, my mom says he won't get involved in the PINS petition unless it is brought to court.

We also met the caseworker, as well as another social worker since another report has been filed, not related to school. This report, because of the areas being investigated, was obviously called in by my father. The social worker has talked to us, but hasn't been to our house yet. I know this report will be found unfounded, so I am not worried about it, only upset that my father had to do this on top of the other case.

The caseworker will come for the first visit in a week or two. I know the caseworkers are involved for a longer time than the social workers are, and that they (in this case) ask about school progress. Any suggestions for me, being homeschooled? Homeschooling is more individually tailored, and I'm uncertain as to what the caseworker will be looking for (besides following regulations - accepted IHIP, quarterly reports on time, etc).

Also, we will be doing family counseling (my sister, my mom and I) as a service DSS has provided (in addition to the individual, every-other-week appointments we each have). So, everything's going to take a while; not a lot of day-to-day events. Any further advice is appreciated.