PDA

View Full Version : Selling a gun



parttime
Mar 24, 2010, 02:26 PM
If an individual in West Virginia sells a gun to a known felon, are they breaking the law? Thanks

J_9
Mar 24, 2010, 02:29 PM
If an individual in West Virginia sells a gun to a known felon, are they breaking the law? Thanks

Yes. Since felons cannot possess firearms, and this was a KNOWN felon, this would be a felony. It could even be worse for the seller if the felon uses said firearm in a crime.

Fr_Chuck
Mar 24, 2010, 02:34 PM
While an individual is not required to do a background check, if the person is known and it is known that they have a felony on their record, yes it is.

parttime
Mar 24, 2010, 03:07 PM
Thanks guys, that's what I thought.

excon
Mar 25, 2010, 07:23 AM
Hello p:

My friend J_9 owns a gun store, so it's very hard to argue with her... But, I'm going to.

Gun stores cannot sell a gun unless they KNOW the person is NOT a felon. Private sales are NOT regulated. Although it's illegal for a felon to purchase a gun from a private seller, it is NOT illegal for a private seller to sell a gun to a felon... There are NO requirements restricting a private sale. There are NO background checks required for private gun sales. There is NO law saying that a private person cannot sell a gun to a felon.

Since there's NO law, there's no law to break.

excon

parttime
Mar 25, 2010, 07:32 AM
That makes sense excon. Thanks

AK lawyer
Mar 25, 2010, 02:29 PM
...
There is NO law saying that a private person cannot sell a gun to a felon.

Since there's NO law, there's no law to break.


Au contraire, mon frere:


61-7-7. Persons prohibited from possessing firearms; classifications; reinstatement of rights to possess; offenses; penalties.

(a) Except as provided in this section, no person shall possess a firearm as such is defined in section two of this article who:
(1) Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;61-7-7. — Persons prohibited from possessing firearms; classifications; reinstatement of rights to possess; offenses; penalties. - West Virginia 61-7-7. — Persons prohibited from possessing firearms; classifications; reinstate (http://law.justia.com/westvirginia/codes/61/wvc61-7-7.html)


61-7-10. Display of deadly weapons for sale or hire; sale to prohibited persons; penalties.

(a)...
(b) (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly sell, rent, give or lend, or, where the person is other than a natural person, to knowingly permit an employee thereof to knowingly sell, rent, give or lend, any deadly weapon to a person prohibited from possessing same by any provision of this article.
(2) Any person violating the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a felony, and, upon conviction thereof,. 61-7-10. — Display of deadly weapons for sale or hire; sale to prohibited persons; penalties. - West Virginia 61-7-10. — Display of deadly weapons for sale or hire; sale to prohibited persons; penalties. - West Virginia Code : (http://law.justia.com/westvirginia/codes/61/wvc61-7-10.html)

J_9
Mar 25, 2010, 02:49 PM
Hello p:

My friend J_9 owns a gun store, so it's very hard to argue with her... But, I'm gonna.

Gun stores cannot sell a gun unless they KNOW the person is NOT a felon. Private sales are NOT regulated. Although it's illegal for a felon to purchase a gun from a private seller, it is NOT illegal for a private seller to sell a gun to a felon... There are NO requirements restricting a private sale. There are NO background checks required for private gun sales. There is NO law saying that a private person cannot sell a gun to a felon.

Since there's NO law, there's no law to break.

excon

Sorry sweetie, I got to disagree wit you this time!

In the case stated above by the OP, the purchaser is a KNOWN felon. This means that the seller KNOWS that the purchaser is a felon. Therefore, it is against the law. If the felon uses the firearm in a violent act, the seller can be charged with a felony as well.

Now, you are correct in that private sales are not regulated as they are in our store. BUT, in this case the seller is selling the firearm to someone he already knows has a felony.

This could also be called a "straw purchase" of the OP were to go into a gun store to purchase a firearm for the sole purpose of reselling it to the felon in question.

parttime
Mar 25, 2010, 04:20 PM
I guess that won't happen, Thanks again for the advice.

excon
Mar 26, 2010, 07:31 AM
Hello again, part:

Given that the cops would have to PROVE what the seller KNEW in order to sustain a conviction, it looks to me, like they'll NEVER get one. Since they can't look into his head, they can NEVER know what he knew, so they can't get a conviction.

If they can't get a conviction on a person WITHOUT that persons help, then I don't believe the law is viable. That's not to say there ISN'T a law... But, there's LOTS of laws on the books that are worthless...

excon

slapshot_oi
Mar 26, 2010, 07:57 AM
. . . Private sales are NOT regulated. Although it's illegal for a felon to purchase a gun from a private seller, it is NOT illegal for a private seller to sell a gun to a felon... There are NO requirements restricting a private sale. There are NO background checks required for private gun sales. There is NO law saying that a private person cannot sell a gun to a felon.

Since there's NO law, there's no law to break.

excon
No federal law, or not no such law in West Virginia? Here in NH, it is illegal to privately sell a gun to a anyone you don't know personally, felon or not, so no craigslist ads.

But, NH is an open-carry state and firearm registration doesn't exist, so you could sell it privately to any citizen of NH without the state knowing. There's no way to enforce it without sacrificing liberties.

AK lawyer
Mar 26, 2010, 03:56 PM
Hello again, part:

Given that the cops would have to PROVE what the seller KNEW in order to sustain a conviction, it looks to me, like they'll NEVER get one. Since they can't look into his head, they can NEVER know what he knew, so they can't get a conviction.

If they can't get a conviction on a person WITHOUT that persons help, then I don't believe the law is viable. That's not to say there ISN'T a law... But, there's LOTS of laws on the books that are worthless...

excon

The question was "are they breaking the law?", not "can they get away with breaking the law?".

Depending on the circumstances, a jury can legally determine, beyond a reasonable doubt, what was in a defendant's head.

excon
Mar 26, 2010, 04:53 PM
The question was "are they breaking the law?", not "can they get away with breaking the law?".

Depending on the circumstances, a jury can legally determine, beyond a reasonable doubt, what was in a defendant's head.Hello AK:

I don't disagree about the question. I'm just suggesting that if the jury CAN'T make that determination, and to me it looks like it would be hard to do, that particular person wouldn't have broken the law. No?

Are you guilty of speeding even if you don't get caught? I say NO. Guilty is what a court of law says you are - nobody else.

excon

AK lawyer
Mar 26, 2010, 06:55 PM
... I'm just suggesting that if the jury CAN'T make that determination, and to me it looks like it would be hard to do, that particular person wouldn't have broken the law. No?


No. He would have broken the law and gotten away with it. See my response to the rest of your post, below.

But beyond an "if a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it" argument, I submit that, as I said above, a jury can very well so decide. Take the following scenario.


Freddie Felon, is stopped for a proverbial broken tail-light and found to have a firearm in his car. A quick check alerts the peace officer to the fact that Freddie is a convicted felon. Freddie is charged with weapons possession and, in a frantic effort to avoid spending the best years of his life in the gray-bar hotel, agrees to turn state's evidence against Gunshow Gus, who sold the weapon to Freddie, while at a gunshow in Nowhere, West Virginia.

Not only does Freddie testify that he told Gus about Freddie's felonious condition, but Ben Bystander also testifies that he was present when Freddie revealed to Gus that Freddie had once been convicted of a felony.

I submit that this scenario contains more than enough evidence to persuade the jury that Gus knew that Freddie was a felon.



Are you guilty of speeding even if you don't get caught? I say NO. Guilty is what a court of law says you are - nobody else.

excon

It's the difference between guilty and convictible.

JudyKayTee
Mar 27, 2010, 02:45 PM
This is scary - I agree with AKlawyer. The question is whether it's legal, not whether you can get away with it.

J_9
Mar 27, 2010, 02:49 PM
This is scary - I agree with AKlawyer. The question is whether it's legal, not whether you can get away with it.

And the fact that it is posted here, there is a permanent, traceable record.