I'm looking at my credit card transactions and blown away already, just 3 Makari items and I am $300 poorer instantly. And these products may only last me 2-3 weeks, I am going to be treating my whole body.

When I finally get my starter order, I plan to use the Caviar Cream mostly. Which is about $65 shipped. For 1 ounce.

That might only last me a couple weeks And the other products are no cheaper. Melederm is $100, Fair and Flawless is $180. Even if I find something that works satisfactorily, how much is that gonna add up to per year. The economy is bad and I have school to pay for too :(

What do you guys find both works AND is low priced?

Anything? And why are they so expensive anyway? How can the ingredients in 1 ounce of cream really cost $60? I can buy a whole a whole new wardrobe for schoo instead of a couple jars of makari. :rolleyes:

I have to say, if you're considering paying this much money to change your appearance, well, it's not a cost that needs to be spent.

It's the same as spending money on a boob job, nose job or tummy tuck. It's not a needed expense, it's a personal expense.

If you can't afford it then you don't do it, it's really that simple.

Altenweg, thanks, I see... that 1 oz bottle of $60 cream or that $180 lightening kit from FF is a luxury expenditure that why it's so expensive.

Anyway, guys, does high-end necessarily mean its more effective? Makari seems definitely high-end!! :)

Altenweg, thanks, I see... that 1 oz bottle of $60 cream or that $180 lightening kit from FF is a luxury expenditure that why it's so expensive.

Anyway, guys, does high-end necessarily mean its more effective? Makari seems definitely high-end!! :)

Not necessarily!!
Some are high priced products such as ones from the department stores but have very little of the active ingredients. High price pays for the pretty package, the magazine advertisements and the super model spoke person endorsing it.

Makari definitely has that high end look, there products are packaged real nice.

The world may never know.

I just have to shake my head when I see those numbers....The most money I ever spent on my skin was 80.00 for Obagi....and I was an ignorant fool to do so....I can buy 4% HQ online for 15.00 but I didn't know better.

Personally, I pretty much refuse to spend over 40.00 on any lightening products, it's just not necessary, same yourself a lot of trouble and money and compound your own damn HQ

Makari could cut back big time if they didn't have such high-end looking jars. The jars can't make you lighter, nor can the advertisements and celebrities. That's why I have been searching for much lower cost products that lightens very well.

Are you using any peels or Retin-a..something to really exfoliate & prepare the skin for the skin (& yes wallet)-lightening products?

I honestly don't think the F&F and Othine would be working nearly as well if I didn't use the glycolic peels regularly. Peeling was a key part of the spa's treatment too.

*peeling
*hq/kojic or bleaching agent of choice
*sunscreen

It's synergistic. This system is definitely working on my tanned parts & melasma..I'm not sure if it's the answer for all-over lightening.

I just ordered 50% glycolic for my outer arms, back of hands, tops of feet that are resistant & laughing at the 35%. The 35% is working fine for my face and neck. My skin feels great and I'm sure it allowed the lighteners to sink in, bringing my face and neck closer to the color of my decolletage & torso.

I've quit the hq & sepi on my face for now so that my arms and hands can catch up.

flash
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6251/picture5kk.jpg

no flash
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/2091/oct15comp2noflsh.jpg

I'm so thankful that I haven't exposed my legs to sun in a while so I'll only have to tackle my knees (with TCA 20%) and tops of feet. Hopefully the 50% Gly will break up the perma-tan crud and let the hq & sepi do their thing.

They're very big on HQ and Retin-A regimens over on SkinCareTalk.com's lightening forum. I'm going to try it on my darker areas to see if it speeds the process. I'm too nervous to use it on my face also as I mentioned before, my face is light enough for now.

Keep in mind that we didn't get scorched overnight, so patience is key. Over there(SCT) they're rec'ing 6 months(?) of HQ & RA for lightening. I've only been at this since the beginning of August and I do see a difference.

Again make sure you're doing something to peel away the old cells and get the most from your pricey (okay maybe not Othine and Nadinola) potions. HTH!

Makari could cut back big time if they didn't have such high-end looking jars. The jars can't make you lighter, nor can the advertisements and celebrities. That's why I have been searching for much lower cost products that lightens very well.

Truth! LMAO!

I am a white woman but I live in a community of black people.
I know all my black friends do not use these products.
People,I am shocked to see that you are not happy with you and will spend all this money to make yourself lighter!!
C'mon
Love yourself.
Are you nothing but the color of your skin?
C'mon,I thought we were past that.
Please stop!!
Honor yourself for who you are !

I am a white woman but I live in a community of black people.
I know all my black friends do not use these products.
People,I am shocked to see that you are not happy with you and will spend all this money to make yourself lighter!!
C'mon
Love yourself.
Are you nothing but the color of your skin?
C'mon,I thought we were past that.
Please stop!!
Honor yourself for who you are !

I do think there's a difference between fading & peeling away melasma and sun damage to get an even-toned complexion and lightening one's base color simply for the brighter shade and imagined status it will supposedly bring.

I've been thinking and feeling a million things since joining this board and reading some of the posts but I don't want to judge... I get the history of racism and need for self-acceptance.

OTOH, as a reformed tanner, I simply thought I that looked better darker. Part me wants to think for some people that this is an inverse of what I went through for years with darker=sexier.

If only there were safe (and easily reversible) ways to tan, bleach, or heck... dye one's self green... then it would be all fine by me. The possible health risks make me nervous most of all.

I'm assuming the lighteners might have a revelation and stop at some point just like many tanners wake-up and stop. It took me until 40 yrs old.:o

I do think there's a difference between fading & peeling away melasma and sun damage to get an eventoned complexion and lightening one's base color simply for the brighter shade and imagined status it will supposedly bring.

I've been thinking and feeling a million things since joining this board and reading some of the posts but I don't want to judge... I get the history of racism and need for self-acceptance.

OTOH, as a reformed tanner, I simply thought I that looked better darker. Part me wants to think for some people that this is an inverse of what I went through for years with darker=sexier.

If there were safe ways to tan, bleach, or heck... dye one's self green... then fine by me. The possible health risks make me nervous most of all.

I'm assuming the lighteners might have a revelation and stop at some point just like many tanners wake-up and stop. It took me until 40 yrs old.:o

We need to accept who we are are what we look like! Bottom line ,we are who we are.
My best friend is black as black and beautiful.
She is beautiful.inside and out.

Lets stop these young girls thinking they have to be caramel or white to be pretty.It's insane.
WHY?
I don't get why you want to be light.
Explain it to me please.
Embrace your color ,please embrace who you are and your beautiful color is who you are!

We need to accept who we are are what we look like! Bottom line ,we are who we are.
My best friend is black as black and beautiful.
She is beautiful.inside and out.

Lets stop these young girls thinking they have to be caramel or white to be pretty.It's insane.
WHY?
I don't get why you want to be light.
Explain it to me please.
Embrace your color ,please embrace who you are and your beautiful color is who you are!

I am embracing my color. I've stopped tanning. I've never wanted to be light, white or even my own medium neither-here-nor-there shade of brown. Hence the laying out to get darker.

I've stopped tanning for several reasons:

It aggravates my melasma (since having children)

unless I was able to lay out nude or nearly nude, I was uneven. (chocolate head w/ caramel boobs etc.)

Finally and most deeply I've stopped for peace and self-acceptance. I've worn my hair natural for years and I've grown to love it. My next challenge was to accept my G-d given coloring.


I'm not sure that you're reading my posts closely enough.:)

I do understand what you're saying and I agree. I find a naturally dark-skinned, even-toned complexion one of the more beautiful sights in life.

We need to accept who we are are what we look like! Bottom line ,we are who we are.
My best friend is black as black and beautiful.
She is beautiful.inside and out.

Lets stop these young girls thinking they have to be caramel or white to be pretty.It's insane.
WHY?
I don't get why you want to be light.
Explain it to me please.
Embrace your color ,please embrace who you are and your beautiful color is who you are!


Melasma

Melasma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMelasma&ei=8HnZSvjFDoT-tQOev5WxCQ&usg=AFQjCNHqJ7de0CKs9Ps-FCswiGbKs-s8kQ&sig2=OmqCpnppOwtIR1efbZPo5Q)
http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/yhst-14738549992190_2058_15428734

Hydroquinone Creams: PharmacyMix Mexoryl SX, Mexoryl XL, Anthelios Sunscreens, La Roche Posay, Hydroquinone Cream, Lakota, Thorne Research, Green Cream, Retinol Cream, MaMa Lotion, Anti Aging Skin Care (http://www.pharmacymix.com/hydroquinone-creams.htm)

Uneveness/Sun damage

http://www.howtogetridofstuff.com/wp-content/uploads/how-to-get-rid-of-farmers-tan.jpg

http://earthboundkitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/tan-line-back.JPG

http://www.studio404saratoga.com/farmertan.jpg

For years, I took more sun to disguise these problems (and because I liked being much darker than my natural shade!) but the best solution is actually in removing the damage and using sunblock.

Again, I understand what you're saying Artlady.

Maybe it is irresponsible of me to post here and perhaps I should simply stick to the melasma and anti-aging forums?:confused:

Melasma

Melasma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMelasma&ei=8HnZSvjFDoT-tQOev5WxCQ&usg=AFQjCNHqJ7de0CKs9Ps-FCswiGbKs-s8kQ&sig2=OmqCpnppOwtIR1efbZPo5Q)
http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/yhst-14738549992190_2058_15428734

Hydroquinone Creams: PharmacyMix Mexoryl SX, Mexoryl XL, Anthelios Sunscreens, La Roche Posay, Hydroquinone Cream, Lakota, Thorne Research, Green Cream, Retinol Cream, MaMa Lotion, Anti Aging Skin Care (http://www.pharmacymix.com/hydroquinone-creams.htm)

Uneveness/Sun damage

http://www.howtogetridofstuff.com/wp-content/uploads/how-to-get-rid-of-farmers-tan.jpg

http://earthboundkitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/tan-line-back.JPG

http://www.studio404saratoga.com/farmertan.jpg

For years, I took more sun to disguise these problems (and because I liked being much darker than my natural shade!) but the best solution is actually in removing the damage and using sunblock.

Again, I understand what you're saying Artlady.

Maybe it is irresponsible of me to post here and perhaps I should simply stick to the melasma and anti-aging forums?:confused:

All I am saying is love you and be who you are NATURALLY! That is all!
I abhor the thought of someone trying to change their skin color,It hurts me to think someone has a no sense of who they are because of the color of their skin.
I have fought for
people to have human rights for many years and it pains me to think my work was in vain.

A beautiful person is someone who is good and kind and real and real is the bottom line!

We need to accept who we are are what we look like! Bottom line ,we are who we are.
My best friend is black as black and beautiful.
She is beautiful.inside and out.

Lets stop these young girls thinking they have to be caramel or white to be pretty.It's insane.
WHY?
I don't get why you want to be light.
Explain it to me please.
Embrace your color ,please embrace who you are and your beautiful color is who you are!

Hi, artlady!

Hey, my skin is white (and red!), freckled, oily as well as dry, wrinkled in certain areas, and also there's the possibility that I have a touch of skin cancer.

Of course, you know me in a number of other ways now...

Do you care what my skin looks like? Could I possibly be one of your best friends? You're already a good friend of mine, at least online, and I don't even know what you look like!

By the way, I'm going to be the piano soloist at the next concert for a local concert band of about 60 music professionals. It's just like the local symphony, except it's a concert band.

I plan on keeping my now, long beard and moustache as well as long hair for the concert!

My point here is, it ain't so much what you look like that counts, but your attitude and what you can do that really counts!

Thanks!

Hahaha, I don't know ANYONE who doesn't have an uneven tan....
I have white boobs and butt (so white they could literally blind you on a sunny day lol) but the rest of my body (that isn't covered by a bikini top and shorts) is a bit darker... it's not as bad as that guy in the first pic but I do have definite lines...

The only person who sees my tan lines is my boyfriend... I don't go walking around town naked so who cares?

I get that my black friends are uneven and I have a friend who has vitiligo and that really sucks.
I see on this board ALL the time about people who are working so hard to achieve something that is illusive and it makes me sad.
I am going to have my girl next door come over and talk to people.
She is very light and beautiful and her sisters are way dark so there is issues there.
I am white but I understand to a point!
I will never get not being YOU!

Hi, artlady!

Hey, my skin is white (and red!), freckled, oily as well as dry, wrinkled in certain areas, and also there's the possibility that I have a touch of skin cancer.

Of course, you know me in a number of other ways now...

Do you care what my skin looks like? Could I possibly be one of your best friends? You're already a good friend of mine, at least online, and I don't even know what you look like!

By the way, I'm going to be the piano soloist at the next concert for a local concert band of about 60 music professionals. It's just like the local symphony, except it's a concert band.

I plan on keeping my now, long beard and moustache as well as long hair for the concert!

My point here is, it ain't so much what you look like that counts, but your attitude and what you can do that really counts!

Thanks!

Hay Bud!
My youngest son (22) has always had freckles and a bit of red hair.
He never liked it.As a kid. Freckles.

I helped him to understand at an early age that what he looked like was cool! He came to accept it.

There was no person in this world who looked like him!

I put makeup on him one day when he was 10 and we looked in the mirror and I asked him what he saw and he said not me and that was the end of him bumming out about freckles. :)

I was surprised,and happy that he got it.

Not too surprised because he was and is a cool kid but he stopped feeling bad about his freckles.

I will remember that day forever:)

So, it didn't cost him any money, loss of reputation, time spent on more worthwhile endeavors, etc. to realize that, the way that he looked was just fine?

Thanks!

I do feel that different people are at different stages of development and I thought that I was trying to be sensitive to that by withholding judgment. (Or at least keeping some of my thoughts to myself.)

OTOH, I have no idea how old some of the members are here so maybe my old lady skin drama and gory details aren't appropriate and possibly misleading.

I thought I've made it quite clear in the short time that I've been here that I don't believe lighter shades of skin are better in any way.

I found this AMHD forum searching for info about side effects and safety of hydroquinone. I've posted before that I am frightened about some of the more dangerous methods that people with perfectly fine skin are using to lighten and even attempt to depigment it.

My personal issue is that I feel better with even skin. I've already done tanning to 'even'(disguise) it a bit & I know how that story ends.

I'm not alone in simply preferring to have even skin ...many people esp. women (my husband is 50 different shades but IMO it's different for men) do.

Hormonal changes & pregnancies can trigger melasma and if you've experienced this, you know it stinks. Even wacky tan lines, farmer tans etc can be bothersome and irritating.

OTOH. I realize that there are people like my dh who don't care.

He didn't get this at all at first. I had to explain my little wood varnish stripping project to him as well. He is now curious and full of jokes about my 'restoration' but there is a slightly nervous undercurrent.

On super shallow note, I simply don't like my face to be one color and decolletage another.
We can't cover up the calico in a dinner jacket like men can.

***
My question is how far does all of this groovy self-acceptance go?

Is it negative to treat wrinkles modestly (not Stepford-level botox)? How about surgery for a poochy stomach after several children?

Are these tweaks the 'be-all, end-all' of life? No, but I feel that if something can be fixed safely , why not?

& Not fair, freckles are cute!

...Being calico-tortoiseshell is another story entirely. lol!

I do feel that different people are at different stages of development and I thought that I was trying to be sensitive to that by withholding judgment. (Or at least keeping some of my thoughts to myself.)

OTOH, I have no idea how old some of the members are here so maybe my old lady skin drama and gory details aren't appropriate and possibly misleading.

I thought I've made it quite clear in the short time that I've been here that I don't believe lighter shades of skin are better in any way.

I found this AMHD forum searching for info about side effects and safety of hydroquinone. I've posted before that I am frightened about some of the more dangerous methods that people with perfectly fine skin are using to lighten and even attempt to depigment it.

My personal issue is that I feel better with even skin. I've already done tanning to 'even'(disguise) it a bit & I know how that story ends.

I'm not alone in simply preferring to have even skin ...many people esp. women (my husband is 50 different shades but IMO it's different for men) do.

Hormonal changes & pregnancies can trigger melasma and if you've experienced this, you know it stinks. Even wacky tan lines, farmer tans etc can be bothersome and irritating.

OTOH. I realize that there are people like my dh who don't care.

He didn't get this at all at first. I had to explain my little wood varnish stripping project to him as well. He is now curious and full of jokes about my 'restoration' but there is a slightly nervous undercurrent.

On super shallow note, I simply don't like my face to be one color and decolletage another.
We can't cover up the calico in a dinner jacket like men can.

***
My question is how far does all of this groovy self-acceptance go?

Is it negative to treat wrinkles modestly (not Stepford-level botox)? How about surgery for a poochy stomach after several children?

Are these tweaks the be-all end all of life? No, but I feel that if something can be fixed safely why not?

I totally get what you are saying,please don't get me wrong.

I am not speaking of you specifically but I do believe there is some point where we have to have self acceptance .

This is who I am and I am fine!

Looks are superficial and that is a lame way to go.

I know we all want to look good but ..what length are we willing to go to achieve that aim?

My personal issue is that I feel better with even skin. I've already done tanning to 'even'(disguise) it a bit & I know how that story ends.
My question is how far does all of this groovy self-acceptance go?

Is it negative to treat wrinkles modestly (not Stepford-level botox)? How about surgery for a poochy stomach after several children?

Are these tweaks the 'be-all, end-all' of life? No, but I feel that if something can be fixed safely , why not?[/B]


Exactly, Eggo!

Many of the "answers" in Skin Lightening are reminders "I will never understand why you dont want to be YOU!".... Made me wonder if this person ever wears makeups, colors hair, uses anti-aging products, ever used fake bake or self tanners, everrrrr.

:D

I do feel that different people are at different stages of development and I thought that I was trying to be sensitive to that by withholding judgment. (Or at least keeping some of my thoughts to myself.)

OTOH, I have no idea how old some of the members are here so maybe my old lady skin drama and gory details aren't appropriate and possibly misleading.

I thought I've made it quite clear in the short time that I've been here that I don't believe lighter shades of skin are better in any way.

I found this AMHD forum searching for info about side effects and safety of hydroquinone. I've posted before that I am frightened about some of the more dangerous methods that people with perfectly fine skin are using to lighten and even attempt to depigment it.

My personal issue is that I feel better with even skin. I've already done tanning to 'even'(disguise) it a bit & I know how that story ends.

I'm not alone in simply preferring to have even skin ...many people esp. women (my husband is 50 different shades but IMO it's different for men) do.

Hormonal changes & pregnancies can trigger melasma and if you've experienced this, you know it stinks. Even wacky tan lines, farmer tans etc can be bothersome and irritating.

OTOH. I realize that there are people like my dh who don't care.

He didn't get this at all at first. I had to explain my little wood varnish stripping project to him as well. He is now curious and full of jokes about my 'restoration' but there is a slightly nervous undercurrent.

On super shallow note, I simply don't like my face to be one color and decolletage another.
We can't cover up the calico in a dinner jacket like men can.

***
My question is how far does all of this groovy self-acceptance go?

Is it negative to treat wrinkles modestly (not Stepford-level botox)? How about surgery for a poochy stomach after several children?

Are these tweaks the 'be-all, end-all' of life? No, but I feel that if something can be fixed safely , why not?

Let me get this straight,no groovy self acceptance thing going on,
Why cant you just not use anything and have your normal skin color?

I totally get what you are saying,please don't get me wrong.

I am not speaking of you specifically but I do believe there is some point where we have to have self acceptance .

This is who I am and I am fine!

Looks are superficial and that is a lame way to go.

I know we all want to look good but ..what length are we willing to go to achieve that aim?

Oh, until the hydroquinone pickles my brain?!:p J/k

How far? Well, I'm done when I'm relatively even. The sunscreen is for life, as it should be for everyone.<casts meaningful look around the room>

Oh well, my husband (he's Euro & very melanin-challenged) doesn't listen about that either.

Glycolic peels are safe AFAIK..they keep you smooth and yummy so that's a keeper but less frequently.

My aesthetican said that 3-6 months is the max rec. for HQ (at 4%), so I'll drop that part Februaryish whether I'm monchromo or not.

That's what I don't understand about some of the threads here and at other sites ~ How people plan to bleach their entire bodies for years? It seems beyond toxic and even if it could be done safely, exhausting.

Also the high % HQ creams I've read about make my eyes burn just thinking about. I don't if it's online bravado or creative storytelling but the tales of long-term use of super strong blends worries me.

Your consciousness can always evolve but if you've damaged your vehicle irreparably, well that just sux tragically.

Let me get this straight,no groovy self acceptance thing going on,
Why cant you just not use anything and have your normal skin color?

Impatience and vanity?:D I have an event in Dec.

Yes, I could only use sunscreen and a loofah or scratchy gloves (am I allowed to exfoliate intentionally in this scenario?) and eventually snap back but that would take forever.

I could also do say...lemon juice, apple cider vinegar, olive oil & papaya soap too. That would help it along but still much more s-l-o-w-l-y than with my dear peels & potions. ...and i'd reek like a salad in the process.

After my first real east coast winter at college, a friend from home asked ...no..more like delicately accused me of lightening myself...nope. I didn't see the sun for months!

Exactly, Eggo!

Many of the "answers" in Skin Lightening are reminders "I will never understand why you dont want to be YOU!".... Made me wonder if this person ever wears makeups, colors hair, uses anti-aging products, ever used fake bake or self tanners, everrrrr.

:D

I know..I stopped straightening my hair years ago but I still use a mountain of different conditioners, aloe gels, spritzes, even my own concoctions etc. to maintain my 'natural' hair.

I have a couple of discreet(easily hidden with clothing) tattoos and few extra holes in my head too...so it's hard for me to say where someone else should draw the line. ...garsh, if I were named the Empress of Earth, honestly I probably would make it a rule that people should make the best of their given skin coloring. ...Sort of polish it up, rock it and live life.

There's always fashion to drive us nuts.

That proclamation would also come from experience and having to do a clean up job when I should have taken better care of myself. My aesthetician told me what to do and what not to do but I didn't listen.

OTOH

Everytime I read one of those 'mono' posts I hope that it's a lie or prank because that entire depig idea is terrifying and sad to me.:(

Beyond the racist/colonial echoes around bleaching.... I've been trying to look at lightening thing in a body modification context. One person's modification might be considered a type of mutilation by someone else?

Can you tell I'm reeeeeeally trying to get my brain around this?lol.:D

I don't want to harshy judge people who I assume are already stressed about feeling too dark.

eta: On yet another hand, I don't want to enable or imply that I agree with the negative color assessments either.

I'm also flashing on body dysmorphia. hmm I don't know, I'm so out of my depth. Maybe I'll just stick with talking about melasma & peels for now.
****

I'm rambling and I apologize for OTing your thread GB. To answer directly, I think some of the lightening products are ridiculously priced because the companies play on people's desperation and/or impatience.

umm, that would be me and F & F...the impatience

if I were named the Empress of Earth, honestly I probably would make it a rule that people should make the best of their given skin coloring. ...Sort of polish it up, rock it and live life.

OTOH

Everytime I read one of those 'mono' posts I hope that it's a lie or prank because that entire depig idea is terrifying and sad to me.:(

Beyond the racist/colonial echoes around bleaching.... I've been trying to look at lightening thing in a body modification context. One person's modification might be considered a type of mutilation by someone else?

Can you tell I'm reeeeeeally trying to get my brain around this?lol.:D

I don't want to harshy judge people who I assume are already stressed about feeling too dark.

eta: On yet another hand, I don't want to enable or imply that I agree with the negative color assessments either.

I'm also flashing on body dysmorphia. hmm I don't know, I'm so out of my depth. Maybe I'll just stick with talking about melasma & peels for now.
****

I'm rambling and I apologize for OTing your thread GB. To answer directly, I think some of the lightening products are ridiculously priced because the companies play on people's desperation and/or impatience.

umm, that would be me and F & F...the impatience


I loved this read -- I would love to be part of ur Earth Empire!

On the area of "depig" I think people are under the false impression that term implies total vitiligo stripping of color like with mono. Actually if one googles "depigmenting agents" it's clear the dermatological profession uses that term to refer to all skin lightening items even the mild ones like licorice, bearberry, collectively:
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1068091-overview

To me, anyone impying that AMHD having a Skin Lightening category under Health & Wellness sheds a dim light on darker skins just doesn't see the light.

I wondered why there's no comparable cat for tanning since its pretty obvious that more Americans and Europeans TAN than LIGHTEN; the reason must be tanning is the cancerous option and just as well, tanning whether intentional or inadvertent chronic actinic damage, often results in the desire to lighten up darkened area whether they be small dark solar lentiges on the face, neck, chest, hand etc, or large darkened areas on the face, neck, chest, hands, etc :)

Well it remains a fact, millions more people are tanning than "lightening" yet no one tells/asks those tanners (paraphrasing) "Why can't you just love the skin you're in?"
I do agree with the reminder but not with the casting of judgment implied with that tone when used in context of an answer to a question about the nature of skin lightening products, nor the lack of reciprocity with tanning, esp when one considers most skin lightening endeavors are to some extent a wellness response following somewhat repentant excess sun exposure in one's youth.

Since you mentioned Fair & Flawless prices, yes the starter kit is $180 yes perhaps harsh skin lightening critics are are onto something - since skin lightening is highly elective, like most any non-surgical cosmetic mod, these companies likely see the opportunity to prey on desperation and so especially the overpriced ones are more bold-faced about being most concerned with lightening up our wallets.

Skin lightening products are all about business. Most are generally compounds of various ingredients, only a portion of which may be scientifically proven, while the rest are all myth-based, or simply natural ingredients added to raise the product's 'naturality' level.

On top of that, they provide unpredictable results, don't work for everyone, nor are they FDA approved. Price and demand also plays a role; it's rare that you see any commercial brand lightener sold for less than $30, therefore the price plateau's as such.

I loved this read -- I would love to be part of ur Earth Empire!

On the area of "depig" I think people are under the false impression that term implies total vitiligo stripping of color like with mono. Actually if one googles "depigmenting agents" it's clear the dermatological profession uses that term to refer to all skin lightening items even the mild ones like licorice, bearberry, collectively:
Skin Lightening and Depigmenting Agents: eMedicine Dermatology (http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1068091-overview)

To me, anyone impying that AMHD having a Skin Lightening category under Health & Wellness sheds a dim light on darker skins just doesn't see the light.

I wondered why there's no comparable cat for tanning since its pretty obvious that more Americans and Europeans TAN than LIGHTEN; the reason must be tanning is the cancerous option and just as well, tanning whether intentional or inadvertent chronic actinic damage, often results in the desire to lighten up darkened area whether they be small dark solar lentiges on the face, neck, chest, hand etc, or large darkened areas on the face, neck, chest, hands, etc :)

Well it remains a fact, millions more people are tanning than "lightening" yet no one tells/asks those tanners (paraphrasing) "Why can't you just love the skin you're in?"
I do agree with the reminder but not with the casting of judgment implied with that tone when used in context of an answer to a question about the nature skin lightening products, nor the lack of reciprocity with tanning, esp when one considers most skin lightening endeavors are to some extent a wellness response following somewhat repentant excess sun exposure in one's youth.

Since you mentioned Fair & Flawless prices, yes the starter kit is $180 yes perhaps harsh skin lightening critics are are onto something - since skin lightening is highly elective, like most any non-surgical cosmetic mod, these companies likely see the opportunity to prey on desperation and so especially the overpriced ones are more bold-faced about being most concerned with lightening up our wallets.

LOL! abt my Emipre.:D

Ok, thanks for explaining GB...I thought that 'depig' only meant the vitiligo treatment that must not be named. lol Seriously though.. one of my teachers had and a cousin has vitiligo and I can't even imagine what that's like. It's great that there's a treatment to finish what the body starts but I cannot fathom intentionally putting one's self in that state.:(

Re:suntans

ITA, in my experience tanning/sun damage is much more widespread, esp where I'm from. Everyone needs to use a good sunscreen, period.

When I was younger, sunning laying out was part of socializing and relaxing...also a cheap way to change my look the sun is almost always available. It's the path of least resistance, esp in CA. lol

It became a cycle because the tans faded, the patchiness returned (often worse because the dark bits only get darker and it's evident when the new tan has faded... Not sure if it makes sense but there's:

Permatan: usually on forearms, hands, back of neck, facial areas but it depends on clothing and exposure patterns

Fresh tan: can temporarily give a glow and more even appearance but fades

Natural base color: areas never-to-rarely exposed


and it's back for another hit of sun. I even considered going to salons but honestly feared that I'd be laughed at for already being 'black' enough. Soon after I actually met an African American girl who used tanning beds to even her skin and get a glow. That was my 'green light'.

As you know GB, My eye is very much trained to a darker look. Remember the photo I posted of Sanaa Lathan and Gabrielle Union? lol. If I could wiggle my nose and magically change to one,

http://alllayedout.com/Images/Animated_Images/graphics/bewitched.gif

I'd pick G.U. (though I suspect that she too tans to her sexy perfection ..lol)

...it's the same when I look at Destiny's Child photos (or any group of people)...my gut response is that I'd rather be Kelly's color than Michelles (closer to mine) or Beyonces.

I'm working on this. I don't want to blame my mom but I will.:p LOL! She's lighter than I am and has always gushed over and admired very dark skinned people. My darker-skinned dad(RIP) never commented about anyone's color either way. He would lay out in the sun because he thought it was healthy and undoubtedly for the great feeling. He was very into alternative medicine/health, spirituality/metaphysics, consciousness/self-help etc.

So somewhere he read that extra sun exposure is actually good for you. (Vit D, recharging esp for darker-skinned people, help the auric field..all sorts of claims)

Even after one of his surgeries (he had health problems totally unrelated to sun & skin issues) he felt that laying out would help him heal faster! My mom almost had a heart attack @<hidden> him stretched out on the deck, stitches to the sun.

Anyway, I guess I had the Bizarro World version of what I'm learning many POC(people of color) go through. So I grew up thinking that being super dark was sort of special (thanks again mom!) and that looking like my mother or myself was boring & unremarkable.

***
I really think that humans are almost always doing something to alter our basic packages. Dental braces, hair and cosmetics, fashion, exercise, plastic surgery, piercings, and so on.

You'd have to be made of steel to not indulge or tinker on some level.

Also, BTW there are many European and American whites using the same products I'm using to dissolve & fade their permatanned areas too. A lot of people are waking up about tanning for aesthetic and health reasons.

I hope the future trend will be to sorta 'optimize' your basic look. So in my mind, that would cut down on dangerous levels of both bleaching and tanning.

Skin lightening products are all about business. Most are generally compounds of various ingredients, only a portion of which may be scientifically proven, while the rest are all myth-based, or simply natural ingredients added to raise the product's 'naturality' level.

On top of that, they provide unpredictable results, don't work for everyone, nor are they FDA approved. Price and demand also plays a role; it's rare that you see any commercial brand lightener sold for less than $30, therefore the price plateau's as such.

Yes, all about money. Just like cosmetics, 'cosmecuticals', and pharma companies.

le sigh.

for the over 18 & of somewhat sound mind:


To circle back to what I posted last night.. IME, glycolic peels (at a spa if you're unfamiliar with them) make a huge difference in the look and feel of one's skin!

If you're slathering pricey brighteners (or moisturizers) on top of too many dead skin cells then it is wasteful and less effective...more costly.

Caveat: I'm not sure that this works for full-body lightening projects or not. Just the thought of head-to-toe glycolic makes me itchy and dizzy!

Also maybe do some soul-searching about exactly why you want to make such a change? In what ways are you expecting your looks & your life to improve? Learn about possible health risks associated with what you're using or thinking of using.. See a dermatologist/aesthetician/psychiatrist for an assessment and advice.

...IME, exfoliation (w/glycolic, loofah, mitts) is great. It helps to get a nice glow on it's own(sans lighteners) whatever color (or colors) you are.

and sunscreen sunscreen sunscreen!

are you using any peels or retin-a..something to really exfoliate & prepare the skin for the skin (& yes wallet)-lightening products?

I honestly don't think the f&f and othine would be working nearly as well if i didn't use the glycolic peels regularly. Peeling was a key part of the spa's treatment too.

*peeling
*hq/kojic or bleaching agent of choice
*sunscreen

it's synergistic. This system is definitely working on my tanned parts & melasma..i'm not sure if it's the answer for all-over lightening.

I just ordered 50% glycolic for my outer arms, back of hands, tops of feet that are resistant & laughing at the 35%. The 35% is working fine for my face and neck. My skin feels great and i'm sure it allowed the lighteners to sink in, bringing my face and neck closer to the color of my decolletage & torso.

I've quit the hq & sepi on my face for now so that my arms and hands can catch up

flash
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6251/picture5kk.jpg

no flash
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/2091/oct15comp2noflsh.jpg

i'm so thankful that i haven't exposed my legs to sun in a while so i'll only have to tackle my knees (with tca 20%) and tops of feet. Hopefully the 50% gly will break up the perma-tan crud and let the hq & sepi do their thing.

They're very big on hq and retin-a regimens over on skincaretalk.com's lightening forum. I'm going to try it on my darker areas to see if it speeds the process. I'm too nervous to use it on my face also as i mentioned before, my face is light enough for now.

Keep in mind that we didn't get scorched overnight, so patience is key. Over there(sct) they're rec'ing 6 months(?) of hq & ra for lightening. I've only been at this since the beginning of august and i do see a difference.

Again make sure you're doing something to peel away the old cells and get the most from your pricey (okay maybe not othine and nadinola) potions. Hth!
your skin look really nice,what soap are you using

Thank you! I've been rotating Likas Papaya Soap, Dove Sensitive Unscented, and Fair & Flawless cleansing scrub.

I just noticed that Dove makes an exfoliating version too. I'm going to try it.

Dove Moisturizing Lotion Gentle Exfoliating Beauty Bar Soap - 4.2 Oz, 2 Pack Buy Online (http://www.americarx.com/Products/38954.html)
http://www.americarx.com/admin/ARXPRODUCTIMAGES/Dimages/Dove/739094.jpg

Eggo, I like your after pic, you are quite light and it has an over-all evening too!

GG actually those were taken one after the other! lol.. For some reason, turning off the flash is making me look light. I took them both during the daytime... indoors... same sitting.

Weird.

IRL, i'm somewhere between the two photos.

Well, the photo looks very natural, I'm hoping to achieve that by December...fingers crossed.

Great sunglasses, I should get myself a pair. ;)

lmao...

Thank you! I've been rotating Likas Papaya Soap, Dove Sensitive Unscented, and Fair & Flawless cleansing scrub.

I just noticed that Dove makes an exfoliating version too. I'm going to try it.

Dove Moisturizing Lotion Gentle Exfoliating Beauty Bar Soap - 4.2 Oz, 2 Pack Buy Online (http://www.americarx.com/Products/38954.html)
http://www.americarx.com/admin/ARXPRODUCTIMAGES/Dimages/Dove/739094.jpg


awesome!

i luv ur chest skintone its so creamy and delicious looking!

She has cute lips too.:)

Well, the photo looks very natural, I'm hoping to achieve that by December...fingers crossed.

You can do it! If I can turn back the clock a bit, anyone can. I was in deep denial and neglect. lol!

Great sunglasses, I should get myself a pair. ;)

:p:D:cool:

^ those shades hav got to be customs! :)

What are you two lighteners doing up so late?

on a twilight/vampire schedule!

awesome!

i luv ur chest skintone its so creamy and delicious looking!

She has cute lips too.:)

Thanks! You all know how to make an old lady feel great! :D

I hope to get my whole body the color of my torso... I'm still not sure if it's possible or not. I've had some serious tans over the years but if what I'm reading (here and @<hidden> SkinCareTalk) is true maybe it will happen eventually.

I wish other people would post more progress photos. There are a few more at SCT but it's pretty much tumbleweed-city visually there too. ..Excellent advice & experience but few photos.

re: the topic and prices

The HQ and RA + sunblock regimen seems much more reasonable (even with the shipping fees) than some of these lightening lines (F&F, Makari etc).

I'm still laughing about what someone (GG i think?) said about the extra fancy Makari containers. I agree, they really could stand to tone it down.

They're, like, fit for the Pharaohs! lol! ..It's a psych thing though...some people really go for that.

Give me a simple tube or plastic jar with more product any day!

qn_u7OsJ8DA

on a twilight/vampire schedule!

http://twilightguide.com/tg/wp-content/themes/Aspire/graphics/cat/twilight-movie-posters/twilight-movie-edward.jpg:p

What are you two lighteners doing up so late?

peace & quiet... children are asleep... If I don't watch the clock, it's easy for me to read, youtube, or look at forums until 3 or 4..then of course I'm extra wrung out the next day.:o

he he...

fit for the Pharaohs jars indeed. When someone mentioned they saved their makari jar, it reminded me of how I saved mine too. i think I threw only one in the trash so far and wiped it clean, i wasn't sure what to do with them...keep them as souvenirs? Pour some Jergens lotion in them, repackage them, and regive as gifts? idk? So pretty and are a waste once your finished with it a month later. I was wandering if I can recycle them?

probably cant recycle unless u can separate the plastic part from that clear frosted glass.

if u make ur own creams u can use the jars and bottles as ur containers... if its nothing that would oxidize like hq or kojic.

probably cant recycle unless u can separate the plastic part from that clear frosted glass.

if u make ur own creams u can use the jars and bottles as ur containers... if its nothing that would oxidize like hq or kojic.

Good point. I might as well save the previous jars, sterilize them, and use them for later use like an alpha-arbutin creme or something.

Funnily enough I put my jar out for recycling and the next thing I knew, it was in my bathroom. My Mum had retrieved it and was using it for one of her creams. Good job I had removed the sticker that said it was a lightening cream, eh !!!

Funnily enough I put my jar out for recycling and the next thing I knew, it was in my bathroom. My Mum had retrieved it and was using it for one of her creams. Good job I had removed the sticker that said it was a lightening cream, eh !!!

lol me mummy rummages thru my recycling trash, looking for what can be salvaged too!

Jeez what's that about ? Sometimes it drives me mad cos I hate clutter and feel so good when I recycle, give or throw things away. If my Mum had her way, we wouldn't be able to move for the clutter.

lol...funny! well, you all have me thinking that I should go ahead and sterilize them now and put them to use, I hate clutter too soI might as well make use of them since they are pretty and sturdy.