Any tips about frame ,and can I run the drain through the washer drain?


Thank you

Hi Ozzie...

Framing should be as directed by the manufacturer of the unit... remember that the unit will be perfectly square... walls should be, too! Never a bad idea to frame about 1/8" larger than manufacturer spec...o.k. (but no larger)? Be sure to check if the manufacturer recommends setting the shower unit in a bedding substrate such as plaster or structolite.

In terms of the drain, it should be possible to connect into the washing machine drain (underground or in cellar), but you will also be required to VENT the shower or could have poor result!

Post this question over in the plumbing forum and we'll see what we can come up with... ;)

Thank you... MARK

Hi Ozzie...

Framing should be as directed by the manufacturer of the unit...remember that the unit will be perfectly square....walls should be, too! Never a bad idea to frame about 1/8" larger than manufacturer spec...o.k. (but no larger)? Be sure to check if the manufacturer recommends setting the shower unit in a bedding substrate such as plaster or structolite.

In terms of the drain, it should be possible to connect into the washing machine drain (underground or in cellar), but you will also be required to VENT the shower or could have poor end result!

Post this question over in the plumbing forum and we'll see what we can come up with...;)

Thank you...MARK

Thank you so much for your answer.the manufacturer spec.. Did not say anything about setting the unit in a bedding.and I have in bathroom drain underground and adrain for washer machine (pip above the ground about 10'' )and what you mean about vent the shower?
Thank you again for your help

This is the first time in my life thinking to do it myself

Asem

thank you so much for your answer.the manufacturer spec.. did not say anything about setting the unit in a bedding.and i have in bathroom drain underground and adrain for washer machine (pip above the ground about 10'' )and what you mean about vent the shower?
thank you again for your help

this is the first time in my life thinking to do it my self

asem

I hope this will help

Hi Ozzie...

The VENT is very important here. Without a vent the shower drain could get siphoned dry when the washing machine drains and that could lead to sewer gasses entering into the home... very unhealthy!

You can use the washing machine vent pipe and the washing machine drain line if 2" drain pipe. Here, you would attach into the 2" washing machine drain pipe underground and just before installing the PTRAP you would take off a wye fitting and run an 1.5" pipe (minimum) up to about 48" off the finished floor and you would connect this pipe into the VENT PIPE for the washing machine drain line.

This can be a bit involved. Look up venting on this site using search or go to www.google.com (http://www.google.com) and check out information on venting a shower.

Pop back here with any questions. We are glad to help if we can... :) Honestly, ask away as needed!

MARK

Hi Ozzie...

The VENT is very important here. Without a vent the shower drain could get siphoned dry when the washing machine drains and that could lead to sewer gasses entering into the home....very unhealthy!!

You can use the washing machine vent pipe and the washing machine drain line if 2" drain pipe. Here, you would attach into the 2" washing machine drain pipe underground and just before installing the PTRAP you would take off a wye fitting and run an 1.5" pipe (minimum) up to about 48" off the finished floor and you would connect this pipe into the VENT PIPE for the washing machine drain line.

This can be a bit involved. Look up venting on this site using search or go to www.google.com (http://www.google.com) and check out information on venting a shower.

Pop back here with any questions. We are glad to help if we can...:) Honestly, ask away as needed!

MARK

Hi Mark
Can you draw pic on how to run the pipe's that would be grateful

Thanks

Hi Ozzie:

Here you go... let me know if you have questions...

MARK

Hi Mark
What I am thinking is raise up shower base about 8'' above the ground and then attach it to 2' pip washer machine drain +vent as you say all above the ground


Mark
If I do that should I
Set the shower unit in a bedding substrate such as plaster or structolite

Hi Ozzi...

If you have the head room then there is no reason this can't be done above the floor. What kind of pipe material above ground? Cast iron or PVC??

The setting substrate is determined by manufacturer... some say OK, some say no and that it voids warranty as some substrates will crack certain materials... *UGH*! If the manufacturer is not clear on this then call them if possible... start with parts dept. if necessary, but get to technical department and ask them if you can set the unit in mortar, structolite, plaster, sand, etc...

For fun, here is a thread that I worked on awhile back now:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/plumbing/new-basment-bathroom-252241.html

Mechanickid wanted to build above the floor... we talked about it and he decided to go below the floor (most of that discussion was deleted for some reason)...

Check it out... long post (over 100), but you will learn a lot about what you are doing.

Pop back as you need to... :)

MARK

I I want to use ABS PIPE

THANK YOU

ABS pipe is fine here. Keep me posted as you go!

Hi Mark

Can I connect the drain to this adapter shows in pic this where dishwasher drain is

Thank you17504

17505

Techincally, you aren't supposed to connect into a cleanout like you propose...

Let me know the answers to the following questions... OK?

How far away is the shower from here? What fixtures are connected to BOTH these pipes?

Once I know the answers I can tell you best option...

MARK

Around 2 feet and there are washer and pipe coming from kitchen sink down to to this pipe

17526

In my area you can't connect a shower or tub onto a drain line from a kitchen sink that comes from above. Here, if the underground drain line blocked up, the kitchen sink could drain into the shower for days before anyone noticed a problem... that make sense..?

Hmmm... of course, you may not have a choice here.. right? Any other drains near here that you could connect into?

Let me know... and give me a day to consult with a couple other plumbers online here... see what they think or what code permits in their area.. ok?

Where are you from Ozzie?

MARK

Double posted by mistake sorry

Canada ,alberta


Thank you mark

Codes differ from state to state here in the USA... never mind from country to country! Are you having this inspected by anyone?

Either way, it can't hurt to call a local plumbing inspector and ask him about connecting a shower on the 1st floor to a kitchen sink drain line coming from the 2nd floor (or basement and 1st floor).

If you plan on selling the house down the road, doing this by code with a permit is always the best route!

Let me know...

Yes there is another drain see pic and I am trying to do the job with your help so no one is coming to inspect after17530

17531

A couple last questions... and then we'll have this figured out.

1) Is this a TEMPORARY installation or will you be keeping this here for all time??

2) What kind of shower are you putting here? One-piece, self-standing, multi.-piece, or custom?

3) How tall is the space from floor to ceiling?


Thanks...

I want to keep this here for all time

1- (1 PC )shower stall 30''x32''x74''
2- 91'' from floor to celling

Ozzie... I have never heard of a 24" wide shower?? Minimum allowed anywhere is a 30"x30" shower?? You sure it's not a 32" x 32"?

I'll write up my answer on this in the early AM.. OK.. Off to work right now... ;)

MARK

sorry man its 30x32x74

Are you installing this shower in a basement on concrete floor, or is there access to drainage pipe from below? If access to drainage from below, I would start looking at tieing into a drain from below and run a vent up and tie into washer vent as Mark already explained. I just worry about having a washing machine, kitchen sink, and shower all draining into the same two inch pipe. And it is possible that the floor drain is on this same pipe also. If washing machine happened to be draining at the same time someone was doing dishes, and by some chance someone was also showering, it very well could back up through the floor drain. But I've seen 1 1/2 lines take all this and more, so its hard to say. If job is not being inspected, just do the best you can(and mark is helping you do that.) Im sure everything will work out just fine. But please do let me know about access to pipes underneith floor. Or would you have to (I hate to say it) have to break up concrete? If so, just go with the plan you have laid out right now.

Yes it is in basement on concrete and would please explain to me what you mean if there access to drainage pipe from below (all what I have shows in the pictures in second page )

Thank you

Hi Ozzie...

Mygirlsdad was thinking it would be best to chop out the cement and see if you can connect into a larger drain line than the 2" pipe you have there above ground....

As you know, you can:

1) chop up the floor and connect into the drain pipe underground (if you are lucky pipe is 3")... you would pipe in a ptrap and run a vent over to the washing machine vent. This would be best result for you and would not require a raised floor.

2) install a male adapter (threaded adapter) into the cleanout that is present and add a vent and ptrap, build the base and install the shower.

3) you may also be able to use the FLOOR DRAIN itself as the shower drain, but you would need to run a vent underground over to the washing machine vent to make this work, so it really is the same as #1

#1 is legal by all plumbing codes... #2 is illegal as it is against code to install any fixture into the end of a cleanout. #3 is about the same as #1...

You tell me which one you choose and I will draw it up for you...no more questions!

MARK

I will go with #2
Can I install adapter has cleanout this way the cleanout we used is replaced with another one?
And about #3 the is the vent has to be underground ?

Mark

This room where I am thinking to put the shower base is the lundry room and I am planining to take down the dry wall wher I marked in pic . What is behyned this wall is small bathroom that's why I want to put the shower in lundry room but you inter to the shower from the bathroom this way my bathroom will be 3 PC even if its very small
So this wall is between the bath and the lundryroom and as you see I have lots room in landry room

Thanks17592

YUP... you can install a cleanout in line... should help. Check out my drawing...

Connect the 1.5" shower vent at about 48" off the finish floor into the washing machine vent.

Connect 2" pipe to pipe using a 2" male a dapater and then add a 2" dandy cleanout after that and use a 2"x1.5" sanitary tee fitting to pick up the vent...end the run into a 2" ptrap (without cleanout on it) for the shower.

I want to check one other thing for you on the floor drain. I'm wondering if that can be used as the shower drain.. I need to double check a coupe things first so please pop back later tonight and check to see if I posted on this.. OK?

Otherwise, let me know if you have questions on my drawing...

MARK

Thank you so much mark

One more question about platform base for the shower. What the best way to build it so will be easy to install p trap or do any service under it or some kind of access in case for future
Thanks

I would build it from 2"x8" pressure treated wood and 3/4" plywood. You should leave enough room between the two center joists to accommodate the ptrap without having to cut the joists. I would also drill through the joists... not notch them... up to you.

You should not need access to the ptrap in the future if this gets installed right... if you do, then you could cut a notch out the back side of the box then... ;)

Keep me posted as you go along.

Thanks...

MARK

So I have to install the p trap before I secure the base and then start building the frame

Yes... you will determine the proper rough in for the ptrap, then install the trap in place, glue and screw the plywood down (have a six inch hole in plywood for strainer body to set down in/on/through) the plywood and then install the shower base/stariner, etc... to finish.

If you have a cheaper shower unit you may be interested in setting the shower base in a structolite gypsum substrate... makes for a very firm base... see picture. This can usually be found at a local home depot.

You should install a 6 mil. (or so) plastic between the plywood and the shower if you plan on setting the structolite in place... this way moisture won't be wicked away from the structolite.

I can't emphasize enough to dry fit everything up here to start when it comes to setting the base/unit...

What type of shower strainer does your shower have? A Socket weld-type (top pic.), a caulkless type (pic. #2,3 combined) or an integral strainer such as in the last picture..?

Let me know...

MARK

OK there is 5 pic
17655

17656

17657

17658

17659

Hi Ozzie:

Build the platform (level) and pipe it all up so the ptrap is centered where it needs to be. The ptrap must be level front to back and side to side.

Leave the pipe riser coming out of the ptrap longer than needed and dry fit so you can pull it out later.

Place the plywood (with 6 inch circle cut out for strainer) on the platform and glue/nail/screw it in place.

Remove the dry fit pipe at ptrap and then DRY FIT the one-piece unit (put in place and plumb/level unit, but don't install) with the shower strainer shower strainer dry fit to the unit as well. to the unit as well.

Then measure the length of pipe needed from the ptrap to the strainer socket fit. Also measure the thickness of structolite needed from plywood floor to the base of the shower.

Remove the unit, cut the pipe and prime/cement the pipe onto the bottom 1/2 of the strainer and then install that into the ptrap.

Then place plastic sheathing if using structolite, mix structolite and place on plywood to thickness previously measured plus an inch.

Install the unit, plumb it, set into the structolite and then use a clear silicone bead along the strainer top and install the strainer into the bottom 1/2 of the strainer assembly. The black rubber gasket belongs under the shower unit on the bottom 1/2 of the strainer... the cardboard gasket can be discarded in this case.

Then screw the unit in place with exterior grade screws and you should be all set with the shower unit installation.

Pop back with questions as need be... ;)

MARK

Hi Mark

I did not find structolite gypsum substrate
In all home hard ware supply is there any other kind

Thak you

I have never used anything but structolite... see if you can find at a local plaster supply store. I'm thinking you could also use a bag of thinset mortar here (mix thick)... ;)

Otherwise, the bottom of the unit you have there looks to be reinforced pretty darn well... could probably install without any substrate bed... but substrate bed will be best overall job.

Keep em' coming.

I live in very small town and all the store I went to they never heard of it and the only have this kind
17773

And even I ask them about the polyehylene sheet they did not know what I am taliking about ,I have extra plastic sheet I used for insulation for my garage this one will work to

Hi Mark
I did all the plumbing work as you told me and before I install the unit and plumb it I thought I should try the plumbing work I did so I run the water on kitchen sink and the water went down to the drain and fill the p trap with water wondering if this is normal
Your advise please

Mortar mix will be fine at this point... ;)


In terms of the PTRAP filling with water from above I figure the pipe probably isn't pitched too much and it should be fine... I have seen traps fill exactly as you mentioned and all was OK.

In post #16 I did say, "In my area you can't connect a shower or tub onto a drain line from a kitchen sink that comes from above" but I don't want you to worry at this point as I figure if the pipe clogs then you will simply need to UNCLOG it... ;)

Anyway, keep going, sounds like you are doing fine!

MARK

Mark is it possible to connect it under the cleanout as it shows in pic
17820

Hi Ozzie...

Certainly is possible, but you would need to move the cleanout, the wye and 45s up so you could fit a fitting into that space as 2" is not enough space to install a fitting.

It would not hurt anything as you could at least install a sanitary tee fitting that has some flow direction to it... compared to a cleanout tee as it is... this may lessen the backflow.

However, it wouldn't change that fact that you are attaching onto a kitchen sink drain line anyway... ;) That pipe is kitchen sink drain line EVEN UNDERGROUND... so changing fitting to sanitary tee not bad, but not perfect solution.

The perfect solution, believe it or not, would be to install this drain into the underground piping at the toilet... or even at the lavatory pipe underground... but for now, as I said... I'd stick with what you have.. see how it works out.

You can always chop up the floor and connect into a larger drain pipe if need be later.

Glad to explain more if you decide to change that cleanout to a sanitary tee... let me know.

MARK

Hi Mark

If the sanitary tee fitting may lessen the backflow for 30% I will do it

In theory... it should not allow the waste to flow up the pipe as easily as the cleanout does... check out each fitting side by side... ;) I wonder if a wye and street 45 would even work better...hmmm..?

You can cut the pipes as marked in my pic. Below and then install the ABS sanitary tee fitting, raise the fittings up and use shielded clamps to connect all together. Here, the clamps get installed and the neoprene sleeves FOLD back on themselves in order to SLIDE the pipes back in place... then the neoprene sleeve FLIPS back onto the pipes and you SLIDE the shielded clamps over the sleeves and tighten all up...

Let me know how you do...

MARK

Hi Mark
As you told me I did install ABS sanitary tee fitting step by step as you said and before I install the shower on bed of mortar I run the water in the sink and dishwasher and the water went down the drain with no problem and even it did not go to to the pipe connected to the shower so I kept going and install the shower as you told me. Level it secure it every thing is done I am now working in install the faucet and the one I have does not say how big the hole it should to drill for it (Single-Handle )

Thank you

Hi Ozzie... good job! Glad to hear things are improved!

The shower valve should come with a plastic rough-in plate... you cut the hole the size of the rough-in plate.. usually! See pictures below. You can see the black plate in the 1st pic. And the white plate in the 2nd pic. The rough-in plate should say something like... "must be FLUSH with finish wall"...

The rough-in plate is 4.1/2'' OK should I use copper pipe or pex pipe which is better(moen model #L82691 single shower faucet )

Thank you

Hi Mark

I just want to say thank you so much for all your help and advices you give me to finch my shower it's done and every thing is working perfect thank you again you're a great man


18289



Thank you

Hi Ozzie...

Looks like a real nice addition to the home! Thanks you for the update on the job... always nice to see the result!

Pop back anytime if we can help again!

MARK