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View Full Version : Got a failure to control traffic ticket after hitting black ice!



lesliet1978
Jan 29, 2009, 07:03 PM
Ok, so we are in Ohio. This am the roads were bad, under a level 2 snow emergency, the bad part was there was a ton of ice out there.
My husband was driving very cautiously on the freeway, hit a patch of black ice, slid and hit a barrier twice, and flew across the freeway. Luckily no one else was involved and the barriers were fine. Our vehicle on the other hand is not. Called the cops to make a report and get help, he wasn't seriously injured thank god. Cops came, tow truck came, and cops ticketed him for failure to control. I was thinking you have to be kidding me, but they weren't.:mad:
When I called to get the fine status the police dispatcher even was puzzled. So, I need some help trying to figure out what we should do, pay the $120 fine and plead guilty, or fight ourselves, or ask a lawyer for help, but not sure how much that is.
Anybody has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanks :-)

excon
Jan 30, 2009, 04:54 AM
My husband was driving very cautiously on the freeway, hit a patch of black ice, slid and hit a barrier twice, and flew across the freeway.Hello l:

Had your husband been driving even SLOWER, and even more CAUTIOUSLY, he might not have lost control of his vehicle...

But, he DID lose control of the vehicle, and he was the only one driving. THAT is the essence of this case.


excon

Fr_Chuck
Jan 30, 2009, 05:39 AM
It is called driving for conditions,
Even from explaining why he had to be driving in such dagerous conditions.

But the officer was correct in the fact that if you lose control you are suppose to be driving at a speed to keep it under control, was 45 too fast, most likely was he driving 30, if so why all the damage

But I would fight it in court, I would do it myself
1. officer may not even show up and you automatically win normally
2. you explain you were driving slow ( if he was) and that it was not a foreseen event. Of course if he was driving 60 on a ice covered highway??

JudyKayTee
Jan 30, 2009, 02:59 PM
Ok, so we are in Ohio. This am the roads were bad, under a level 2 snow emergency, the bad part was there was a ton of ice out there.
My husband was driving very cautiously on the freeway, hit a patch of black ice, slid and hit a barrier twice, and flew across the freeway. Luckily no one else was involved and the barriers were fine. Our vehicle on the other hand is not. Called the cops to make a report and get help, he wasn't seriously injured thank god. Cops came, tow truck came, and cops ticketed him for failure to control. I was thinking you have to be kidding me, but they weren't.:mad:
When i called to get the fine status the police dispatcher even was puzzled. So, I need some help trying to figure out what we should do, pay the $120 fine and plead guilty, or fight ourselves, or ask a lawyer for help, but not sure how much that is.
Anybody has any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it!
Thanks :-)



I don't think you're kidding. I investigated eight of these accidents/injuries/tickets yesterday alone.

It's failure to control. Had he been driving for the conditions, he would not have been in an accident.

HIS argument is that the conditions weren't bad all over. He hit one isolated patch of ice, a condition he could not have possibly foreseen, and that caused the accident. You bring weather reports.

THEIR argument is that the weather was terrible all over and he should have expected to hit ice. They bring weather reports.

And then someone, someplace (undoubtedly a Judge) decides.

- And, yes, people actually pay me money to figure out solutions like this.

twinkiedooter
Jan 30, 2009, 06:18 PM
Generally when there is a snowstorm at a Level Two, I stay home as it is too dangerous to be out there on the roads. The Judge will definitely agree with me and you'll have to pay the $120. What was so important that he had to be out in a Level Two storm? I just got done spending two days at home due to the main roads not being plowed.

twinkiedooter
Feb 3, 2009, 07:00 PM
Ohio Snowstorm Levels:

LEVEL 1: Roadways are hazardous with blowing and drifting snow. Roads are also icy. Drive very cautiously.

LEVEL 2: Roadways are very hazardous with blowing and drifting snow and ice. Only those who feel it is necessary to drive should be out on the roadways. Contact your employer to see if you should report to work.

LEVEL 3: All roadways are closed to non-emergency personnel. No one should be out during these conditions unless it is absolutely necessary to travel. All employees should contact their employer to see if they should report to work. Those traveling on the roadways may subject themselves to arrest.

He should have given himself plenty of time to drive very slowly so as to have avoided any dangerous stretches of roads.

If you decide to hire an attorney to fight the $120 fine, his retainer would be a lot higher than that to begin with. If you want to fight it yourself, good luck.

May I suggest buying a 4WD vehicle for use in such horrible snowstorm weather? And drive much, much slower in Level 2 conditions. And yes, I live in Ohio as well and have driven in Level 2 storms but ONLY in my 4WD vehicle on main roads and mom and pop 2 lane county unplowed roads. Any other vehicle is not safe to tackle a Level 2.

lesliet1978
Feb 3, 2009, 07:26 PM
Ohio Snowstorm Levels:

LEVEL 1: Roadways are hazardous with blowing and drifting snow. Roads are also icy. Drive very cautiously.

LEVEL 2: Roadways are very hazardous with blowing and drifting snow and ice. Only those who feel it is necessary to drive should be out on the roadways. Contact your employer to see if you should report to work.

LEVEL 3: All roadways are closed to non-emergency personnel. No one should be out during these conditions unless it is absolutely necessary to travel. All employees should contact their employer to see if they should report to work. Those traveling on the roadways may subject themselves to arrest.

He should have given himself plenty of time to drive very slowly so as to have avoided any dangerous stretches of roads.

If you decide to hire an attorney to fight the $120 fine, his retainer would be a lot higher than that to begin with. If you want to fight it yourself, good luck.

May I suggest buying a 4WD vehicle for use in such horrible snowstorm weather? And drive much, much slower in Level 2 conditions. And yes, I live in Ohio as well and have driven in Level 2 storms but ONLY in my 4WD vehicle on main roads and mom and pop 2 lane county unplowed roads. Any other vehicle is not safe to tackle a Level 2.
It was a 4wd no matter how slow you go you really can't control a car on ice.

excon
Feb 4, 2009, 05:20 AM
It was a 4wd no matter how slow you go you really can't control a car on ice.
*reddie* well thats a no brainer and helps me noneHello again lesliet:

If you really believe that you CAN'T control a 4 wheel drive NO MATTER how slow you go, you ain't got no BRAIN, and you should NEVER be allowed to drive.

excon

JudyKayTee
Feb 4, 2009, 06:05 AM
It was a 4wd no matter how slow you go you really can't control a car on ice.


As I may have mentioned, I investigate accidents for a living. People actually pay me to investigate and come up with a cause and fault. Really, they do.

If you can't control a car on ice you were going too fast when you hit the ice. If you are to be believed no one would get anyplace any time there is ice anywhere.

You are making excuses here which are better made to the Judge.

twinkiedooter
Feb 4, 2009, 07:51 AM
Judy and Excon - I agree totally with you two. I drive my 4WD when the roads are icy, but I drive slowly and carefully. Poster's husband was driving way, way too fast for the conditions. Even if the vehicle was in 4WD, it would have been able to properly maneuver on the ice. The only time I was unable to control my 4WD vehicle on the ice was when I was going faster than 30 MPH - otherwise I had perfect control as all 4 wheels were engaged on the roadway, ice or no ice and I did not jerk the steering wheel or stomp on the brakes (which will make the vehicle slide on ice). He obviously hit the ice patch and stomped on the brakes thinking that he had 4WD and he could just stop that much quicker. I know as this happened to me once. I was at the top of a hill that the roadway was covered with snow and ice. Proceeded to go down the hill. There was a stop sign at the end of the hill where the road went into a T. I waited too late to apply the brakes and then when I did - I proceeded to slide down the hill and over the intersection to the other side of the T. That sure woke me up! That taught me a very valuable lesson. Just because I had the vehicle in 4WD did not mean that I stopped any faster than normal. He obviously needs to learn that valuable lesson - the 4WD vehicle does not stop in 4WD.

KISS
Feb 4, 2009, 08:35 AM
This is an interesting discussion.

I was involved in an accident which me and 4 other cars almost uavoided because someone was doing donuts in front of a donut store. Then some idiot hit everyone of us. The cops said we a too busy and since no one is hurt, why don't you all come to us, maybe a mile down the road, so we did. They say that they GENERALLY don't ticket people in bad weather.

Another time I was driving and a cop stopped me ans suggested that I not be driving in the snow. I went back on my same route and found him up on a snow bank.

I've driven where the bridge in front of me was solid ice. I navigated the bridge just fine. They paniced and hit their breaks. Two other vehicles saw the bridge and plowed into the sides.

Another time I was traveling a long double decker interstate bridge early in the morning and the surface was a solid sheet of ice. Scary, but no problems.

I've driven on roads where it was solid ice after an ice storm. Again, no problems.

Even in high school, I was out and freezing rain hit the roads. Again, no problem.

I did hydroplane once and that prompted me to get better tires.

Mud is almost impossible to get out of, but I did.

There are techniques to drive in the snow and ice, but most people never learn them.

I love a stick shift and a stiff suspension, but I don't have that now. It makes it harder. I can at least turn off traction control and turn overdrive off so that the drive wheels spin equally and slower and I do that for rain, snow, sleet and ice.

Driving too fast for conditions is probably a hard one to fight. This might be similar to failure to control.

Fadingxlullaby
Feb 6, 2009, 06:32 AM
That is completely ridiculous that he received a ticket for this. It doesn't matter how fast you are going sometimes you slide on black ice. You should definitely fight this in court.

JudyKayTee
Feb 6, 2009, 06:43 AM
Sure if you go so slow that you can generally walk faster than you drive you can control, but if you are on a solid sheet of ice good luck with that.
And....by the way I have a PERFECT driving record! I didn't ask for advice here on how to drive but rather on how to try to get out of the ticket because a cop was in a bad mood and wanted to be a A**.


I'm sorry you aren't happy with the advice. You asked for LEGAL advice (and I appreciate that the thread has gone off course about whether you can or cannot slide on black ice) but the LEGAL ADVICE - and, again, Attorneys actually pay me to conduct these investigations and I do them every day this time of year - is that YES, you can get a ticket for failure to control your car.

I hear this argument all the time. "I've been driving X number of years and I've never been in an accident before, never received a ticket before. The Police officer was a jerk." Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. Maybe he tickets everybody. Maybe he doesn't. The important part is he CAN and HAS issued a ticket in this case.

Will it be reduced or dismissed? No one knows that the DA (or ADA) and the Judge.

If there had been an accident (my speciality) with damages/injuries your husband most likely would have been 100% at fault.

Time to shut it down.

excon
Feb 6, 2009, 07:01 AM
how to try to get out of the ticket because a cop was in a bad mood and wanted to be a A**.Hello again, l:

In the first place, I think all cops are A**'s. Second; I LOVE helping people BEAT them. That is my ROLE in life!

AND, if you COULD get out of this ticket, I'd be right there telling you how... But, what I DID tell you, is that the ticket was issued LEGALLY, because as you yourself belatedly confirmed, there IS a speed at which you can drive on black ice, and STILL BE IN CONTROL of your car.

Now, we can debate how slow that is, but that isn't the point. No matter HOW SLOW it is, THAT is the speed the law requires you to travel. In your case, the fact that you LOST control means that you were exceeding that speed.

Let me say that again; the fact that you LOST control means that you were exceeding that speed. The FACTS speak for themselves.

In my post above, I was trying to explain that to you, but you didn't get it. I don't think you'll get it even now... But, there ain't nothing I can do about that.

excon

ScottGem
Feb 6, 2009, 07:50 AM
That is completely ridiculous that he received a ticket for this. It doesn't matter how fast you are going sometimes you slide on black ice. You should definitely fight this in court.

Sorry, but that's not accurate. Sliding on ice IS avoidable. Losing control when hitting ice is defintiely avoidable.

Comments on this post
lesliet1978 (http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/lesliet1978.html) disagrees: In OH you can drive in a level 2, not until level 3 are you supposed to be off the roads, he has a job and had to be at work. He just cant call off. I am in health care and regardless we are required to be in, level 3 or not. People have to work

First, may I call your attention to the guidelines for using the comments feature found here:

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedback/using-comments-feature-24951.html

Twice in this thread you gave negative ratings on opinions, not statements of fact. This is inapropriate use of the feature.


Four wheel drive vehicles are not immune to skidding. Four wheel drive helps in going through mud and snow and dirt, but they have no special facility for handling ice. However, many drivers of 4-wheelers have a greater, but false sense of security, that they are immune to such problems. I suspect that's why the cop issued the ticket. Fact of the matter is that he did lose control. The statute of failure to control doesn't give an out for conditions. It simply says that the drive failed to maintain control of the vehicle.

Whether a judge gives you a break due to conditions will be up to the judge.

JudyKayTee
Feb 6, 2009, 09:40 AM
That is completely ridiculous that he received a ticket for this. It doesn't matter how fast you are going sometimes you slide on black ice. You should definitely fight this in court.


This is an opinion. It's a legal board. What is your legal opinion?

Fadingxlullaby
Feb 6, 2009, 10:07 AM
This is an opinion. It's a legal board. What is your legal opinion?

If you had actually read what I wrote {unneccessary comments removed} I stated my "legal opinion" when I said that she should absolutely fight this in court.

ScottGem
Feb 6, 2009, 10:11 AM
Comments on this post
Fadingxlullaby (http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/fadingxlullaby.html) disagrees: I stated my legal opinion learn to read

First, may I call your attention to the guidelines for using the comments feature found here:

http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedback/using-comments-feature-24951.html


If you had actually read what I wrote {unneccessary comments removed} I stated my "legal opinion" when I said that she should absolutely fight this in court.

You are missing the point. You were being asked to justify your opinion by citing the law that supports it.

Synnen
Feb 6, 2009, 10:21 AM
If you had actually read what I wrote {unneccessary comments removed} I stated my "legal opinion" when I said that she should absolutely fight this in court.

And that OPINION is based in LAW---how, exactly?

Fadingxlullaby
Feb 6, 2009, 11:36 AM
If they fight it in court with a lawyer than they might at least get the charge reduced and the fine waived. Might being the key word.