My question is this:

at what part in this scenario is the husband unfaithful:

1. Husband smiles at girl in bar
2. Husband chats to girl in bar
3. Husband flirts with girl in bar
4. Husband touches arm of girl in bar
5. Husband touches leg of girl in bar
6. Husband touches of girl in bar
7. Husmand masturbates in shower, thinking of the girl he met in the bar
8. Husband has`sex with wife but thinks of the the girl he met in bar
9. Husband has oral sex with girl he met in bar
10 Husband has sex with girl he met in bar

jenniepepsi

i agree synnen thats cheating too...that wasnt listed but iw ould have said that emotional cheating is cheating.

NeedKarma

Probably but it doesn't seem to bother me, most likely because I've never seen it happen to me. I certainly don't do anything that I wouldn't want my wife to do on her side. I've searched for ex-girlfriends on Facebook just for fun but that's about it.

I've always made a distinction between "cyber" stuff and real life. For instance I don't take this website (or any) seriously, I don't woryy about my reputatuon here becasue it isn't "real life" in my book. Phone calls are quite different, that gets in that gray area.

shazamataz

The only 'online cheating' I do is in a certain thread on here and my other half usually reads what I type.
If it was done without his knowledge and I kept it from him then I would consider it cheating.

I've been on one end of an "internet relationship" and it is not fun when you find out.

smoothy

Depends....if its done with the knowledge and expectation that they WOULD get together to consumate it at an unknown time....then maybe. Otherwise it isn't. You can fool around verbally without it being cheating. If you want to consider that cheating then I've cheated with all of my sister-in-laws, in front of their mother, in front of their husbands, in front of my wife, and even alone with them....but there was never any expectation that anyone would do anything. Even though we did get graphic joking around.

But then, none of my inlaws are paranoid or have low self esteme. Hell everyone gets a good laugh when I grab a handfull of butt and comment , "oh this is too soft, you need to exercise more" . or "you need some more padding in this bra, I couldn't find your boobs", they joke about lets whip it out ans see what you have..etc....


I know a few women in this thread would totally freak out in that situation. My wife knows we are just kidding around and so do they. And flirting is not at all he motive in this example.

Mymama

In #8 we sometimes are thinking of different people when we have sex. I think that is what keeps the fire going SOMETIMES, not all the time. Men beat off to porn, what is the diff there in #7. In #9 the lips of the man should only be on the (lips) of his wife. He could still be thinking of the bar girl.. How are we to know what is inside of our husbands head. Again he COULD BE FANTASIZING. I think #9 and #10 are off limits.........

Synnen

The point there, Smoothy, is not that there's a lack of self-esteem involved---but that there's good, open communication.

I flirt all the time--but I don't do anythign my husband would be ashamed of me doing, or that would hurt him.

I know which things those are because we communicate.

I don't think intent is the issue--it's that some people just have different expectations of behaviour in their significant other than other people do. As long as there is communication about what is and is not acceptable, where's the issue?

smoothy

And the people with self esteme issues have to own up to their problems and do something about it. Rather that transmit their own deficiencies on others and expect them to conform to their distorted views.

Jealousy, low self esteme, and other issues (such as paranoia, or shyness) can't be treated until that person acknowledges it, takes ownership of it, and works hard to improve the condition.

Some people just expect everyone else to conform to what they expect everyone should do. And thats neither healthy, nor right. Because its the easy exit for them. They do not wish to do the hard work to improve their condition, preferring to dominate someone else so they don't have to face their problems.


After all, as I have previously mentioned....one persons rights end when the other persons begins. And I believe those rights are sacred.

shazamataz

What if both people agree that simple flirting is taking it too far?

I thought with flirting we were talking about in a bar without the persons wife/husband being there?

I don't have a problem with my partner hugging his female friends or having a general 'flirting' conversation but with an unknown girl in a bar yes I would have a problem. I don't think that's a self esteem issue, I take it more as 'why would he want to be flirting with someone else when he is commited to me?'

smoothy

Aha...but if you aren't there, then how do you know that its flirting, and not just being sociable? I've seen women that got really *itchy if I talked to a female....yet they felt they could talk to however many guys they felt like...

If both are that paranoid about a taliban description of flirting then I forcast a painfully dull marriage based on the personality type.

And while you would have him striking up a conversation with a female being flirting.... then how would you feel if YOU were prohibited from talking to any other guys outside of those you have to work with? And why would that be different? Reversing the roles is a great way to see when something is unreasonible.

shazamataz

You do have a good point, I see a diference between just chatting and flirting though. Chatting to another girl would be fine, my partner goes to a lot of car shows and often talks to girls about cars, outright flirting would be a no-no for me though.

I don't have a problem if other people do it differently and are happy to let their partners flirt if they know that's as far as it goes but I just can't seem to get my head around it personally.

I don't know if I am old fashioned or have self esteem isuues like you said but that is just how I have always seen it.