So... I am 36 years old, and shocker... I go to X-rated sites. I've seen some videos where women masturbate either with fingers or "tools" and then spray a stream from the Vulva/Vagina, which looks unnatural. My question is: Is this possible? The spray lasts for a long few seconds and can go a few feet high.

The answer is short : yes that is possible.
It's due to contractions of - and the resulting force on the available fluids inside - the vagina.

Squirting... is possible.

However, in most porn videos, when a woman squirts and it hits the ceiling for long periods... that would be peeing.

Yes it is possible.

The female produces prostatic like fluids, similar to a man. Some believe some women have greater volume in part due to... ungh, I can't think of the name physically... the fluid passes though tissue with pores or small holes, and the bigger the "holes" that are naturally present, the more volume there is.

That said, there's large suspicion that with larger volumes and stronger streams, urine comes into play.

Another note... in one study of women who were able to control the event versus women who couldn't control it... there was a high proportion of women among those who could control it that didn't feel any additional orgasmic pleasure from the event... meaning they could train their body to do this at orgasm, but didn't feel a stronger orgasm. Among the women who had no control, they had no reference... orgasm resulted in ejaculation. Also, women who could contol it often had bigger volumes.

I'm not going to say female ejaculation doesn't add additional stimulation is all women. That was just one study and the general results.

But compare that to the male. While orgasm and ejaculation are actually two different events that are tied in time usually, the physical feeling of ejaculation adds strongly to the orgasm. Restricting the shaft of the penis to minimize ejaculation alters the sensation (not that it still isn't intense).

*It is all fake.* Why, I once saw in a film an Asian woman smoking a cigarette with her vagina. In addition, I read about an Indian swami who could put his penis in a dish of water and suck up the solution!

Pornography is acting and make believe. A few men and women can train themselves to do a lot of things with their orifices that the average person cannot do, or train themselves to do. I read an article about how porn actresses *fake* this so called vaginal squirting of copious amounts of fluid. That is what it is *pure fakery*!

Women don't ejaculate... that is an urban myth kept alive by all kinds of misinformation. A woman can train herself to expel urine from her urethra, urine plus other chemicals from semi-dormant glands surrounding her urethra... that's an esoteric kind of skill, but it's not ejaculation by any stretch of the imagination!

Females have a much more sophisticated and complicated genital system compared to men. These kinds of sexual myths spring up because people have little understanding of how the female genital system works, specially the fabulous female multi-orgasmic capacity that men cannot duplicate.

No more posts on female ejaculation without sources.

Period.

The debate goes both ways, and I have yet to see ONE person post a source.

I'll include myself in this--personal experience doesn't count as a source. I want scientific studies, and I want them from reputable sources.

If you can't include it, then I will delete your post. I'm not going to moderate the debate back and forth yet AGAIN when this has been talked about in at LEAST 2 other threads in the last month.

Do not close this thread yet.

I have a lot to say and not enough time to do the work right now.

The short answer will be the para-urethral glands and presence of fluid are supported by primary medical research. The phemonenom of high volume squirting is really unclear and skewed by the sources.

It might seem odd, but my posts on this subject and choux's actually agree, though they appear to take different angles. Male ejaculation is a different, unique phenomenon. High volume female "ejaculation" is believed by many clinical sex therapists to likely be urine aided, but there's a lack of primary lit. making it black and white, not unlike other aspects of human sexuality, especially female.

Going to take a few days to get this done.

I wasn't closing the thread, dear.

I just don't want the "It's urine!" "It's NOT urine" thing to go back and forth.

The thread remains open, but I want to see some sources for both sides of the argument, if it is argued at all.

"Statesman" page 299, Plato

"To think that a thing can go at one time in one direction and at another time in another, is not lawful." No matter if it be urine, cows milk or just plain yogurt.

l12, please look at the usage for the ratings feature. You gave me a reddie for telling you how I was going to moderate this thread. How can you disagree with the facts of THAT? Unless it is factually wrong, please refrain from giving out "disagrees".

And--I was serious. If you have no sources, I will delete your post.

I may be able to find it on the internet, but that is NOT the point. The point is that people have been arguing this back and forth on a few threads, and tend to get mean to each other about it.

If you can find sources online, GREAT! Link them. I'm sure we'd all love to see them!

If you have a medical book that talks about it--great! Please list it as your source for information.

But--No sources, no post. I'm dead serious about this. Otherwise, it's an argument that goes nowhere, and isn't helpful at all to anyone seriously asking the question.

This is from the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology

Female ejaculation

Belzer10 concluded that “female ejaculation... is theoretically plausible” based on a brief literature review and interview-generated anecdotes. The interviews were conducted by students taking a graduate level course on sexuality. Six students interviewed “about 5” people each, male or female. Included in the interview was a question about female ejaculation. Of the 6 students, each “found at least 1 person who reported that she herself, or, in the case of a male informant, his female partner, had expelled fluid at orgasm.” Three of these women were then interviewed at length about their ejaculation, and their comments are included in the paper in some detail. In the questionnaire study4, 11 discussed above, 40% of the respondents reported experiencing ejaculation. Anecdotal and interview-generated reports such as those noted above are far from adequate to show that the ejaculated fluid is anything other than urine. Such evidence would be provided by chemical analysis of the ejaculated fluid.

Addiego et al2 were the first to perform such a chemical analysis. They obtained samples of urine and ejaculate from 1 female subject. They reported a higher level of prostatic acid phosphatase in the ejaculate than in the urine. Prostatic acid phosphatase is found in high levels in male ejaculate and originates in the prostate which, of course, produces components of the male ejaculate. This evidence could be taken, indirectly, as support for a “female prostate” and, more indirectly, for the G-spot. However, Belzer12 later noted that the test used was “not entirely specific for acid phosphatase,” citing a review to this effect by Stolorow, Hauncher, and Stuver.13 In another study6 of the chemical nature of female ejaculate, 11 subjects were studied. All produced preorgasmic urine samples. All then engaged in “some form of noncoital activity resulting in orgasm” and 6 collected some resulting ejaculate. The urine and ejaculate samples did not differ in levels.

To summarize that article, some guy did a test... thought it was female ejaculate... then realized his test was kind of shifty... 3 other people did a test... and found that in the end, it was urine.

The article I posted above was from 1984... by a guy named Whipple.

There's a newer article by Whipple called "An update on the female prostate and the phenomenon of female ejaculation"... from 1993. It's in the same journal Journal of Sex Research... 1993, Vol. 30, No. 2, pp. 148 - 151.

The conclusion states the attached picture.



So I guess... this just shows that science constantly changes... so... yeah. It's up to you.

Just an fyi-

Whipple is not a man. Beverly Whipple is a very well-known author and researcher... co-authored the G spot, doctorate in psychobiology with a lot of her work tied to neurology, professor emeritus at rutgers, lots of research on women's sexual response, and she's teamed with others in the field (zaviacic, perry, addiego, belzer) who believe in female ejaculation, though, if I remember right, she believes the number of women who experience it is around 10%. She's one of the people on the "pro" side that make me not disregard the possibility of female ejaculation. But she's also an author who wants to keep selling books too.

And as for the post I promised with references, its on its way probably later next week. Needing a trip to the university library to review some literature and scour some journals. I'm not likely to have a different opinion on this topic (that it is a phemomenon that neither side has fully proven or disproved to my satisfaction)... but I need to look at some primary med journals before I post. Online searches are rarely adequate for reviews like this.

I look forward to the summary of your research, kp, as an independent observer in this debate.

I will prepare information to show that female ejaculation is not an orgasmic bliss response of the female genitals, but rather another very pleasant function of the urinary system, based on the structure of the female uro-genital system and scientific studies of cells and systems, in part... and I provide additional information and my conclusions.

Female Ejaculation
While all women have a G-spot, it has been estimated between 10% and 40% of women are capable of ejaculation. The G-spot need not be stimulated for ejaculation to occur, but most women say that their first ejaculation experience came from massaging their G-spot. The response varies from a light sprinkle to a huge gush. I have experienced women who gushed huge amounts of fluid 10 feet out.

Researches have found that although many women feel a slight need to urinate right before ejaculation, the fluid is definitely not urine. Nor does it come from the Bartholin gland which produces a milky, odorless secretion that helps lubricate the vagina when sexually aroused.

Today we now know that the difference between women who squirt and those that don't is in the number and size of their pariurethral glands. They are analogous to the hundreds of tiny glands that constitute the male's prostate gland and are responsible for 15% to 50% of the fluid a man ejaculates.

The myths that female ejaculation is the result of poor bladder control, or excess secretion which sweats from the vaginal walls and pools in the back of the vagina to squirt out during the strong muscle contractions of orgasm, have been proven wrong. For decades many women felt it dreadfully abnormal and tried to hide or avoid it. Physicians in their ignorance tried to cure it. By questioning many women, researchers have established that about one woman in five ejaculates (through her urethra rather than her vagina), some of the time but not always. The stimulation of the G-spot produces both her ejaculation and her deep uterine contractions.

Besides the famous study of Whipple and Perry of Dr. Ernest Grafenberg's 1950 article about the spot, in Nova Scotia researcher Ed Belzer explored the chemical composition of female ejaculate. In Florida Helen Robinson and Sharon Pietranton worked with groups of ejaculating women. At first American gynecologists, routinely trained not to sexually stimulate their patients, were astonished that Dr. Grafenberg was on such sensual terms with his. Generations of gynecologists have tied to cope with "hypersecretors" blaming it on poor bladder control.

"Women's response to direct stimulation of the G-spot is identical to the response of males when their prostate is stimulated," Perry and Whipple observed. The first few seconds of stimulation produces a strong feeling that they have to urinate. This feeling lasts for two to ten seconds, maybe longer, before changing to a distinctly sexual enjoyment. Whipple felt that most women when faced with this sensation hold back their sexual response to keep from wetting on their partners. Perry theorized that this may explain why up to 25% of American females never have orgasms - they've learned early that to avoid the embarrassment of urinating during sex, they have to hold back.

Women with well-toned PC muscles are more likely to ejaculate and generally have better orgasms. Many women ejaculate easier after they've “primed the pump” with a few orgasms, others come on their first one. The common theme seems to be extreme arousal and direct G-spot and clitoral stimulation for an extended time.

It is common for writers of porn films and erotic books to make it appear that male ejaculations "shoot" or "spurt". But Kinsey's observations of hundreds of male ejaculators showed that in about 75% of men the semen merely exudes from the meatus or is propelled with so little force that the liquid is not carried more than a very small distance beyond the tip of the penis. In short, most males ooze rather than shoot. Their semen doesn't spurt, it dribbles out.

Similarly, if a woman expels fluid other than urine from her urethra, she shouldn't have to make it squirt for it to qualify as ejaculation. The fact that many women don't notice it since its not a powerful squirt contributes to the underreporting of female ejaculation. Other women, including one of my (Dave's) partners, very strongly squirt large amounts of fluid while having powerful G-spot orgasms.

Helen Robinson reported that one of her research subjects was highly orgasmic and continued to ejaculate copiously with each orgasm and would ejaculate a quart of fluid in one session. A teaspoon of fluid is the more common amount, but a cupful is not uncommon.

At Dalhousie University professor Ed Belzer found varying concentrations of acid phosphatase in the women's ejaculate. This chemical had previously been thought to be produced only by males, and in some courtrooms was accepted as evidence to support a rape charge. Belzer's discovery proved that it wasn't urine and also pointed out the existence of a genuine female prostate-like gland.

Not only are the fluids they produce chemically similar, the female prostate acts like the male prostate: when rhythmically prodded, it swells up and then discharges fluid through the urethra. To reach a male's prostate gland, you have to reach in through his anus. In the female, you reach in - at virtually the same angle - through her vagina.

There has been debate whether the ejaculation originate from the bladder or from the urethral glands and ducts. Both may be the case in that a small amount of fluid may be released from the urethral glands and ducts in some instances and mixed in the urethra with a clear fluid that originates in the bladder.

Tests have been done where the bladder is drained of urine before the sexual stimualation and resulting ejaculation. Even though their bladders had been drained, they still expelled from 50 ml to 900 ml of fluid through the tube and into the catheter bag. The only reasonable conclusion would be that the fluid came from a combination of residual moisture in the walls of the bladder and from post draining kidney output.

Regardless, a number of tests have chemical analysis have been done on the fluid. Exactly what it is, isn't known but there is a consistency of results that show a greatly reduced concentration of the two primary components of urine, urea and creatinine, in the expelled fluid.

As Unv of So Calf tests showed the results were clearly "out of the range" to be defined as urine.

But women's sexuality still remains a mystery (as women do in other ways... as the exact source and exactly what the fluid is remains natures secret.

Male and Female Sex Organs Have Common Origin
An anatomy lesson may help understand why ejaculation is not as far fetched as it may seem. There really is not that much difference between male and female sex organs. In-vitro we all start as female. If we get certain chemicals our development changes to male and our female organs dry up and we develop male.

Have you ever wondered what that line was on the back side of a penis? Or, have you ever looked? It is the remnants of a man's vagina when he was a female early in gestation. Likewise the very sensitive spot on the back of a mans penis, where the foreskin attaches is the remnants of the female clitoris.

Sexual development in the womb it is not always perfect. The most extreme problem is those whose gender does not match their sex organs (transsexuals). Since male and female are so similar, surgery can reassign one's sex to match gender. Yes, it is done all the time, both male to female and less frequently female to male.



The same but much less dramatic natural event seems to occur in some women in which they develop small prostate like glands that are capable or producing ejaculation. Lab tests show the female ejac is very similar in composition to the prostate fluid within the male ejac (semen which comes from prostate mixed with sperm etc), but without the sperm in a female.


Fluids reported as being present in female ejaculate. Information and links to sites re: female urethral ejaculation.

1. - Several views of the paraurethral or Skene's Glands (The G Spot) - good for anyone curious enough to want to see what Skene's Glands look like and where they are located. Significant, is the fact that these glands open not only to the exterior but several ducts open directly inside the urethra and into the upper vaginal wall as well.

2. - Female Ejaculation, the Female Prostate, and the G-Spot - very good site with the most information, lots of diagrams, including “how to find the "G" spot. “In some cases, all of the fluid emitted from a woman's urethra is ejaculate. In other cases, the liquid is likely a mixture of ejaculate and urine, or only urine. There has not been sufficient research done to clarify exactly what the fluid is, in every instance.”

3. - Female Ejaculation G Spot Orgasm Articles at DoctorG.com - very good article on female ejaculation (urethral) with a report on an experiment in which women known to be ejaculators were tested using catheterization to determine where the fluids expelled actually came from, one woman actually producing 900ml. Of ejaculate. The conclusion was that the fluid expelled was principally from the bladder but was significantly different from urine collected before orgasm.

4. - Cobello's FE Paper - indicated that the urethral glands are homologues of the male prostate that most women expel such fluids in amounts from so small as to be unnoticeable to them, up to 50 ml. and that most of the fluid ejaculated is urine.
- “The urine emitted after the orgasm carries the product of the "female prostate" on its way through the urethra.”
- “In 75% of the postorgasmic urine samples, we detected PSA.” “The obtained data seems to confirm our hypothesis that at least most women (75% of our sample), produce a certain amount of PSA during orgasm, that can only come from the urethral and paraurethral glands (female prostate).“
- “Summarizing our position, we believe that all women ejaculate, that is, produce more or less quantity of secretion of the urethral and paraurethral glands and Skene's ducts and expel it outwards or inwards, towards the bladder, with the orgasmic contractions.”

5. - http://members.tripod.com/MrBulky/gspot.htm - a lot of info on the “G” spot but scroll down near the end and in "THIRD ARTICLE” there's more about ejaculation, where it was noted that the ejaculate definitely came from the urethra.
“Orgasmic expulsions occurred after less than a minute of stimulation; they were separated in a multi- orgasmic series by similarly brief periods. The urethral area was clearly exposed in bright light, and there was absolutely no doubt that the liquid was expelled from the urethral meatus. Sometimes it exuded from the meatus. At other times it was expelled from one to a few centimetres. On one observer occasion, expulsion was of sufficient force to create a series of wet spots covering a distance of more than a meter.”

6. - http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~gob...mic_Gushing.htm - discusses the different fluids expelled during orgasm and attempts to differentiate between lubricants, ejaculation and gushing

7. My Female Ejaculation Experience - good general info from the female perspective.
“When female ejaculation occurs, the consensus is that it comes from the urethra and not the vagina.”

8. - Two forms of stimulation -- two forms of orgasm - Effects of Clitoral and GSpot Stimulation on Pelvic Muscles - pretty technical stuff, but a good way to see the differences in intensity between clitoral and “G” spot orgasms by electromyographic recordings. Also a few links to other pages of Kegel info.

http://www.libchrist.com/sexed/Gspot.html

Look, I'm not done yet... the "problem" I have is this...

Having been a researcher (biochemical work), I know how easy it is to present a paper at a conference, and then offer this as legit research at a website. There were "papers" I wrote and presented, all real work, but that were never peer reviewed, never held to the strict criticism or standards that the primary medical literature is held to.

So... before any website is quoted as fact... before any "journal" is touted as truth... before any book on sex by an author who's job is to sell books is presented as The Answer... I think its worth stepping back and looking at the source, the methods, the reputations, and the supporting evidence.

The thing that's taking me so long is the lack of supporting evidence from some of the primary, highest praised and respected journals... oddly enough, the lack of contradicting work in the same journals keeps the door wide open.

So... I'm not slamming the above post, but honestly...

Citing female-ejaculation.ws/docs/definition as "proof" of anything is really not enough for me.

Every word might be true... but as a scientist and having worked in research... I sure as hell wouldn't base my reputation on what the internet has to offer.

I have over 40 primary lit articles I'm looking though or trying to get access to through the local univ or medical school. In the end, some of what is on that internet site will likely be justified and supported. Some won't.

Just please... be cautious about online works. In my experience, scientific research is hardly ever adequately supported by popular online works...

Western med does a lot of things backasswards concerning women's bodies and health. Sometimes you need people outside the establishment to think differently. But I'm NOT going to cite the top ten Google search engine results as proof of anything.

Its not how I tick.

If reports and websites are not proof then I suppose the only proof IS personal experience then.

You have no experience with the scientific method? With peer review publications? Repeatable research?

Copy and paste doesn't cut it... but maybe that's the scientist in me talking.

I wouldn't know where to look those (experience with the scientific method? With peer review publications?) up for this