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Quick question. I have seen a lot of these threads where people are confused about what constitutes virginity. I was just wondering what most of you thought about oral sex. If you have had oral sex but not intercourse, are you still considered a virgin?
Scott think about what you just said.....a virgin girl is a rape victim....she gets pregnant, Has the baby.....so are you going to argue she is equal to the Virgin Mary? Because you would be arguing here is a virgin...and she is a mother.
No, that's not what I'm saying. Its what YOU are saying. I've said all along that penile penetration of the vagina constitutes loss of virginity. Whether it was voluntary or not.
But you want loss of virginity to occur when a person voluntarily engages in ANY sexual activity. Ergo, since a victim did not voluntarily engage in any sex act, then, by that logic, they shouldn't lose their virginity. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want someone to lose their virginity whether they voluntraily or involuntarily engage in ANY level of sexual activity. I'm saying if you extend loss of virginity to any level of sexual activity, you have, in effect made the definition of virginity totally meaningless.
The other point is its NOT your decision. Again, a virgin is defined as not having had penile penetration. That is a factual definition and no matter how you want to extend it, its the accepted medical definition.
No, that's not what I'm saying. Its what YOU are saying. I've said all along that penile penetration of the vagina constitutes loss of virginity. Whether it was voluntary or not.
But you want loss of virginity to occur when a person voluntarily engages in ANY sexual activity. Ergo, since a victim did not voluntarily engage in any sex act, then, by that logic, they shouldn't lose their virginity. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want someone to lose their virginity whether they voluntraily or involuntarily engage in ANY level of sexual activity. I'm saying if you extend loss of virginity to any level of sexual activity, you have, in effect made the definition of virginity totally meaningless.
The other point is its NOT your decision. Again, a virgin is defined as not having had penile penetration. That is a factual definition and no matter how you want to extend it, its the accepted medical definition.
Virginity was defined by the Church long before most people were literate. Sex is sex. Anything with the Clintonian definition of sex diminishes the meaning and value of virginity....
Under your definition of virgin, you can literally have a woman with a huge rap sheet and prison time for prostitution that might fit your fairly narrow interpretation of virgin. As long as she was providing oral or anal sex as long as she kept it out of that hole then she is a virgin. Therefore how does that give the meaning of virgin more value than my meaning of virgin where a virgin remains pure and untouched by sex.
I would argue my more strict interpretation gives it more significance and thus more meaning.
Anything this simple and clear is diminished when someone wants to find ways to circumvent the intent and spirit of something. Be it criminal law or tax law. Or even a topic of morality.
As an example, what value does a tax law become after it gets gutted by numerous loopholes and exemptions that would apply to 90% of the people.
The actual law is not strengthened by such an act, and in fact ends up greatly diminished.
Like I said....a virgin girl that was raped , impregnated and had a child...is NOT a virgin....pure and simple. I might be sympathetic to her plight, I might feel bad for her. But the fact remains she is not a virgin.
Sex is sex....voluntary or at gunpoint. Have any form of it and you aren't a virgin any longer.
Darnit guys, I now think that smoothy might be right. Everyone has seen the definition of Virgin that has been posted, the one most of us are abiding by is the sexual intercourse section, well, here is the definition of sexual intercourse.
sexual intercourse
n.
1. Coitus between humans.
2. Sexual union between humans involving genital contact other than vaginal penetration by the penis.
Allheart- I thank my lucky stars everyday that my children are still young. I hope that when it comes time for them to step out into a sexual world I will have done my job well enough that they will respect their bodies and the bodies of others. So much of the information that children get is inaccurate and down right dangerous. My twenty year old niece actually believed that she couldn't get pregnant the first time she had sex. She doesn't think that she can get aids from oral or anal sex. The misinformation that our children are receiving is mind boggling.
I posted the definitions because I wanted everyone to have the information before debating it any further. We all have a right to feel how we feel about this topic, it's up to all of us to come up with a definition that fits our lifestyle, one that we want to pass on to our children. I hope I'm making sense.
Allheart- I thank my lucky stars everyday that my children are still young. I hope that when it comes time for them to step out into a sexual world I will have done my job well enough that they will respect their bodies and the bodies of others. So much of the information that children get is inaccurate and down right dangerous. My twenty year old niece actually believed that she couldn't get pregnant the first time she had sex. She doesn't think that she can get aids from oral or anal sex. The misinformation that our children are receiving is mind boggling.
I posted the definitions because I wanted everyone to have the information before debating it any further. We all have a right to feel how we feel about this topic, it's up to all of us to come up with a definition that fits our lifestyle, one that we want to pass on to our children. I hope I'm making sense.
Altenweg out.
You made perfect sense and so right in posting what you found.
And your children have a wondeful foundation...thanks to you.
You made perfect sense and so right in posting what you found.
And your children have a wondeful foundation...thanks to you.
Thank you for saying that, I'm definitely doing the best that I can for them, I love them so much and I hope that they realize that everything I tell them is meant to help them grow and stay safe. There are so many scarry things in the world today, it baffles the mind. The best a person can do is talk to their kids, play with their kids, develop an honest, open relationship with their kids so that when the crap hits the fan they'll come to you. I worry everyday that they will be influenced by someone other than me and their dad, so far so good but they're only 5 and 9, when they become teenagers I might loose my mind.
I have had some small discussions with my 9 year old about sex, I give him the reins, if he asks I tell, but to be honest at this time I leave allot of stuff out, there are some things that a 9 year old doesn't need to know until he's much older. He's still very much in the Ewwww, that's gross stage.
Thank you for saying that, I'm definitely doing the best that I can for them, I love them so much and I hope that they realize that everything I tell them is meant to help them grow and stay safe. There are so many scarry things in the world today, it baffles the mind. The best a person can do is talk to their kids, play with their kids, develop an honest, open relationship with their kids so that when the crap hits the fan they'll come to you. I worry everyday that they will be influenced by someone other than me and their dad, so far so good but they're only 5 and 9, when they become teenagers I might loose my mind.
I have had some small discussions with my 9 year old about sex, I give him the reins, if he asks I tell, but to be honest at this time I leave allot of stuff out, there are some things that a 9 year old doesn't need to know until he's much older. He's still very much in the Ewwww, that's gross stage.
Take care everyone.
LOL and you keep encouragning that ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that's gross Too funny.
Children should be allowed to be children for as long as possible. My Mom and Dad had 5 children all together, (twin girls), so for the longest time, I thought they only did "it" 4 times...ewwwwwww gross .
Your children will do wonderful....you teach that out of love....can't beat that!
My Mom's appendix ruptured when she was 18 and messed up her Fallopian tubes. She had minor surgery every month for 8 years in order to have me. They felt the need to tell me that they tried everyday, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day in order to have me. Too much information, LaLaLaLa, I can't hear you. We all like to believe our parents are sexless.
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