First of all Hello to everyone.
I desperately need help with my sister. Let me tell you about our family's current situation. For about the past 13 years my parents have been supporting my older sister, who is now 31years old. Since the moment she graduated high school she has been in a downward spiral. She's never been able to hold a job and support herself financially. My parents have been dishing out money left and right paying for loans, rent, bills, and lawyers fees for her. Over the years I've told them to stop and let her take care of her business and maybe that will force her to take some responsibility, but they refuse because of my sisters daughter. They fear the only one that will suffer is my niece. Just recently my sister lost her job and moved into my parents home. After almost losing custody of my niece to the father she continues to go out all night long with her friends and doesn't come back home to her daughter. My mother was heartbroken to find my 5 year old niece, who set her alarm for the morning, get dressed for school and woke her up to say that she needed someone to walk her to the bus stop because "mommy" still hasn't gotten home. My mother is on the verge of tears everyday as she sees what kind of lifestyle my niece has been in and is overwhlemed with stress from arguing with my sister everyday about everything. What do we need to do to get her to finally grow up and be responsible? My mother can't kick my sister out because she wants to keep my niece there where she knows she'll be looked after properly. Can my mother get custody over her grandchild?
We have many questions about my sisters mental health but she refuses to seek help or doesn't believe us when we tell her she needs it. How can we force her to get help?

You cannot force your sister to get help. She has to be able to admit to herself that she has a problem and want to help herself.

It sounds like your sister is very messed up almost like she has lots of underlying issues that need addressing and her bahaviour is her way of coping. Rather than having screaming & shouting matches why don't you just trying making idle chit chat just to get her to talk and gain trust. If she learns to trust one of you then she will be more open with you and perhaps tell you what's going on in side. If she feels like the family just wants to have a go ad criticize all the time then she will just keep rebelling. I know you parents and you only want the best and you are only doing what you are at her best interests, but your sister is not going to see it like that from where she is standing. A bit of reverse psychology is needed here.

But the one thing you must remember is not to push her or force to do anything. She has to want to do that for herself. "You can only help people, that want to help themselves".

Be there for her if you are patient she will eventually open up to you. In the meantime, concentrate on your niece and make sure she gets the love & attention required.

Just hang in there, something will give; just have faith.

Please do keep me updated and if you need any more help or just want a chat we are all here to listen & help anyway we can. ;)

Like DJ'H said, You cannot force your sister to get help for these problems. She has to be willing to do it for herself. Its too bad because she isn't seeing what this is doing to her daughter. Or does and chooses to deny it.
If your mom can prove to a judge that your sister is a unfit mother than your mom can get custody of your niece. If she is in immediate harm or is being neglected by her mother, most judges will grant custody to the father or a grandparent, and that may force her to get the help she needs, but at the same time it may make her resentful to you and your parents. You have to take the good with the bad. But the main concern in this situation is your niece and she needs to be taken care of first before your sister, she is the innocent one.

A good point, your parents could gain custody of your niece. However they should tred carefully. It could makes things worse. You want to lose your sister completely. If she is as unstable as you say she is, she may flip out and it could make her behaviour worse.

There is nothing at all you can do. And no, if your mother proves that her daughter is unfit, that only gives the father rights to his custody claim
(most likely anyway) but what is so bad about the father getting custody, the mother is not a good mother from what you are saying.

But honestly, your parents are not ready to actually kick her out, even if they got custody. But how do you think the child's father feels knowing his child is living with a person like this also, and your parents are allowing it to contrinue because they keep paying the legal fees to keep the child with the mother.

As long as they will not accept the truth about a situation, and as long as they wish to be part of the problem, it will continue.

I couldn't agree with Fr Chuck more.

Custody.

If your sister loses it, the father will get it first. You already said he has tried before.

If your parents aren't ready to kick her out and make her fend for herself, then they are only encouraging the problem. Talk with this child's father. Perhaps you can arrange something with him. Niece lives with Grandparents, but Mommy is kicked out.

She needs help. And unless she if forced to, it doesn’t sound like she ever will (at lest not in the immediate future).

I thought the grandmother should get custody because the father wasn't mentioned and I figured he wasn't in the picture or couldn't or didn't want custody. Of course if the father is a fit father and wants custody he deserves to take the little girl, but if that isn't the case then the grand parents should be the next in line, since they are basically taking responsibility for her anyway.

Oh whoops I just re read the post and saw that the father did want custody of the little girl, sorry, I must have overlooked that. The father does deserve custody then.

Your sister isn't parent material. I believe a mother's only concern should be about her child. If a mother only cares about going out and having fun at the expense of her child and the grandparents should sum it up right there. Open and shut case. The father is totally able to win custody, if he holds a decent job and can care for his child.

Hi thanks for all your replys to my issue.
About the custody battle with my sister and her ex. This has been a huge problem. The father of my niece is not a good father. Over the years as they lived together my family has caught him with drugs in his home, and severely neglected my niece. From my own experience, I showed up at their home one day as a surprise, because I was passing through on my way to my parents home. I found the front door unlocked and slightly open. As I walked in I saw my niece who was 7 months at the time in a baby walker chewing on a metal beer bottle cap that she found lying around. Her face was stained with dry tears and gums were cut and bleeding. Her father was hung over asleep in bed at 2 in the afternoon. My sister was grocery shopping and was gone all morning. The stories go on and on. Sometimes he used his daughter as excuses not to pay back money to people in his neighborhood. He would say his daughter is sick in the hospital or some other sad lie. I still don't know why he owed all these different people money, but he owed them money none the less.
Since their breakup he moved in with his current girlfriend who has 3 children of her own living with them. And my niece has repeatedly told us she doesn't like that her father never pays attention to her when she visits. She constantly has to compete for her fathers attention with the other children.

Just recently my mother has contacted me. She tried to take matters into her own hands and try to take custody of my niece. This I didn't know until yesterday. The so called father has never gotten along with my parents. He said he would not give her up or share custody and if they tried to take her away he threatened to tell the courts that my father was a child molester. He said my sister is messed up as much as she is because of my father. We asked my sister about this and she said he was lying and will stop at nothing and do anything to ruin my parents.
This brought tears to my eyes. I feel that we've hit a brick wall. I feel helpless and angry. I don't understand how this could be happening to my own family. We're good people. We're good kids who were raised with high expectations and so much opportunity. How did my sister get so messed up? I am so lost and don't have a clue of what to do.
My sister is going to eventually move out with her child and we won't be able to do anything. Thanks for all your help guys. I appreciate all of your responses.

Your parents defenitly need to get custody. How sad for your niece to be going through this, when both parents are unfit to care for her. I hope your mom will be able to do this.

Hi, I just read your new letter. Believe me I know where your coming from. I also have been raised in the perfect [family]. That's what everyone I know believes. They just never saw what really happens behind closed doors. You are not alone and my heart goes out to you.Try not to carry all of the burden on yourself. Some things are meant to be difficult for a reason. Your niece is so lucky that she has an aunt who loves her so much. As she grows up she will always remember how much you love her. I think that will get her through

OK.. ill try and put this as gently as I can so I don't upset too many people.

On the question of 'what can you do?'

You can do something. A person can be committed involuntarily when family members feel it is necessary. That would be a very drastic maneuver. Now, I only mention this because of the mental problems you noticed before. This does not mean, of course, that you have to put her in a loony bin. An intervention can happen for drug/alcohol abuse as well as for mental instability. Have your parents talk to their doctor. If they can make a case to get her into treatment (which, although sometimes costly, can be cheaper in the long run for your parents) then she will have the time to consider her life and the choices she has made. Their doctor has the ability to confine her to rehab forcefully.

One other thing this does is put a hold (if there is a current one) on any custody move the father may make, as she cannot lose custody of the child while she is in treatment.

This is not the best case scenario, but sometimes you have to make very hard decisions for ones you love.

The best of luck with this one.

Sos

Thank so much for that bit of info Sosdog. I think that this has gone on for way too long and stepping in now is our last resort.
I wanted to know what you meant by her not losing custody during treatment. I mean if she is diagnosed with a mental instability and she has to take medication or something else for the rest of her life, she'll always be in "treatment" So she can never lose custody. Is that right?
Mamekulick thanks for writing and your support, same with everyone. Sorry I didn't respond right away. I have 2 kids of my own and had birthday parties to make and now both are fighting the flu. As if I don't have enough to deal with. :)

When I stated 'in treatment' I was referring only to the initial treament for mental diagnosis and/or care.

It is very hard to take custody away from anyone who has it. Having to prove that the parent is unable to take care of the child or that the child is in danger with the parent is so hard that it is rarely ever done. Just because your sister is an alcoholic or parties a lot or is on medication for mental type illness does not mean she cannot function as a good, caring mother.

Sos

Thanks for clarifying that. I'll update you when the ball starts rolling. I'm sure I'm going to have more questions.
Have a great day!

Anyone else's advice or comments are welcome.

-suminjavi

I understand that you want to help your mom and help your sister. The only thing is, it does not sound like she wants any help and it almost seems that by supporting your sister it has made things worse. It is partly your families fault for allowing her to be so dependent and now she does not want to take responsibility for anything. As far as the father of the child? What is the father like? If he is a strong, reliable figure why not get the rest of the family to help him get custody. I know the grandmother wants to do well for the little child but if your sister is always being held and not facing any consequences nothing will change. The biggest changes need to be made on her own. I think if she had to face some tough situations by your mom supporting the child and custody for the father and she lost her child because of her actions then she might change. If the child is safe in custody with somebody else then some tough love from your mom with your sister needs to be done. No more handouts. No more nothing. There needs to be rules and if she is staying with your mom your sister needs to understand this. I know it may be easier said then done. This will take time but the first and most important thing is to get custody of the child to the father if he is a reliable, stable person. Then your mom can deal with your sister without using her grandchild as an excuse of not dealing with your sister. Like I said, one of the biggest problems is the handouts the she has always received and expected. This of course are my thoughts on this and based on what you have said.

Hi. Again. Sometimes you need to be a little bit mean to the ones you love. I found the nicer you are the more they expect. When you are distant they want you closer. It's all a mind game. Treat your sister as if you don't care. Your mother should do the same. She doesn't need to know how much you love your niece and grandchild. She is using her for self gain. That little girl seems to have more love from you and your parents than most in the entire world. She will be fine. Don't worry so much

She needs a reality check, something to make her realize what kind of a life she is missing out on and how her lifestyle is affecting everyone that cares about her. I was recently going through the same thing and they only way I realized what I was doing was to stop drinking and find a new group of friends, ones that were more supportive and less substance dependent.