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-   -   Can I pass ETG urine alcohol test after about 46 hours? (http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/addictions/can-pass-etg-urine-alcohol-test-after-about-46-hours-695877.html)

  • Aug 22, 2012, 09:36 AM
    DrBill100
    Just from standpoint of alcohol metabolism: Part of a dose of EtOH is metabolized in the stomach by intestinal enzymes and then is absorbed into circulation via the small intestine. The referenced surgery, as I understand it, sub-divided your stomach and rearranged the small intestines to service each section separately. That leads to a reduction in the functional volume of the stomach and alters physiological processing of food. By extension necessarily EtOH as well. But to what degree and how is beyond me.

    Usually one expects this to accelerate gastric emptying, pushing it through the stomach faster with little or no metabolism causing higher levels of alcohol to be directly absorbed in the small intestine increasing the amount of EtOH in circulation (BAC) and increasing volume that the liver must metabolize. That is based on DrBill's ABC theory.. C follows B, B follows A etc and does not consider intervening physiologic variables. Nor do I have any direct experience in this arena.

    There is something I am missing because of your capacity for alcohol that is far in excess of what I would expect.

    In the few cases I have reviewed GBP usually converts to intoxication at much lower levels of intake. A marked reduction in physical tolerance

    I can't resolve even this basic first metabolic step let alone predict the enzymatic alterations that are in play leading to EtG/EtS synthesis.
  • Aug 22, 2012, 09:47 AM
    Firebutie76
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DrBill100 View Post
    Just from standpoint of alcohol metabolism: Part of a dose of EtOH is metabolized in the stomach by intestinal enzymes and then is absorbed into circulation via the small intestine. The referenced surgery, as I understand it, sub-divided your stomach and rearranged the small intestines to service each section separately. That leads to a reduction in the functional volume of the stomach and alters physiological processing of food. By extension necessarily EtOH as well. But to what degree and how is beyond me.

    Usually one expects this to accelerate gastric emptying, pushing it through the stomach faster with little or no metabolism causing higher levels of alcohol to be directly absorbed in the small intestine increasing the amount of EtOH in circulation (BAC) and increasing volume that the liver must metabolize. That is based on DrBill's ABC theory..C follows B, B follows A etc and does not consider intervening physiologic variables. Nor do I have any direct experience in this arena.

    There is something I am missing because of your capacity for alcohol that is far in excess of what I would expect.

    In the few cases I have reviewed GBP usually converts to intoxication at much lower levels of intake. A marked reduction in physical tolerance

    I can't resolve even this basic first metabolic step let alone predict the enzymatic alterations that are in play leading to EtG/EtS synthesis.

    Just out of sheer curiosity, if you remove the fact that I have the Gastric Bypass surgery, and assuming that my body systems would mimic that of a "normal" person, could I expect to pass the ETG test after 46 hours of not drinking with the information I provided in my original post?

    Thanks again!
  • Aug 22, 2012, 10:02 AM
    DrBill100
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Firebutie76 View Post
    Just out of sheer curiosity, if you remove the fact that I have the Gastric Bypass surgery, and assuming that my body systems would mimic that of a "normal" person, could I expect to pass the ETG test after 46 hours of not drinking with the information I provided in my original post?

    Thanks again!

    I doubt it.

    Should add that GBP should be specifically considered in any type of alcohol testing due to the enhanced potential for endogenous ethanol production (EEP) related to intestinal yeast/sucrose. EEP is sometimes referred to as auto-brewery syndrome. In my opinion EtG testing is contraindicated. I can't see what reliable conclusions could be derived from the test. Is this for medical or legal purposes?
  • Aug 22, 2012, 10:34 AM
    Firebutie76
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DrBill100 View Post
    I doubt it.

    Should add that GBP should be specifically considered in any type of alcohol testing due to the enhanced potential for endogenous ethanol production (EEP) related to intestinal yeast/sucrose. EEP is sometimes referred to as auto-brewery syndrome. In my opinion EtG testing is contraindicated. I can't see what reliable conclusions could be derived from the test. Is this for medical or legal purposes?

    Legal purposes.
  • Aug 22, 2012, 11:41 AM
    Firebutie76
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Firebutie76 View Post
    Legal purposes.

    Since my last drink was at about 2:00 am on Sunday morning, assuming that I didn't drink the rest of Sunday, I would most likely have been cleared of ETG on Tuesday at 8:00 when I had the test (about 66 hours from 2:00 am Sunday to 8:00 pm Tuesday).

    With that said, between 8:00 am and 10:00 pm on Sunday, I figure I drank approximately 10-11 standard drinks (with the wine coolers being the least amount of % of alcohol from 8 to 10:00 pm) before going to bed. There was a lapse of about 3.5 hours from the regular wine (ending about 4:30 pm) to the wine coolers (at 8:00 pm) along with a decent amount of food and liquids Sunday through Tuesday and frequent urination (to the point of where my urine was near colorless at the test).

    Coupled with this information, would the 46 hours of non-drinking be enough to clear me of the ETG reading after the approximate 10-11 standard drinks throughout Sunday? Only about 3 of those drinks were 80 proof whiskey, 5 were regular strength wine, and 2 were wine coolers at 3.2%.

    Even at the time I was done drinking the Jim Beam (10:30 ish am on Sunday), had I not drank the rest of the day, I still would have had about 56 hours of no drinking until the test and most likely could have cleared the ETG (10:30 am Sun to 8:00 pm Tues).

    Am I missing something?
  • Aug 22, 2012, 11:44 AM
    Firebutie76
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Firebutie76 View Post
    Since my last drink was at about 2:00 am on Sunday morning, assuming that I didn't drink the rest of Sunday, I would most likely have been cleared of ETG on Tuesday at 8:00 when I had the test (about 66 hours from 2:00 am Sunday to 8:00 pm Tuesday).

    With that said, between 8:00 am and 10:00 pm on Sunday, I figure I drank approximately 10-11 standard drinks (with the wine coolers being the least amount of % of alcohol from 8 to 10:00 pm) before going to bed. There was a lapse of about 3.5 hours from the regular wine (ending about 4:30 pm) to the wine coolers (at 8:00 pm) along with a decent amount of food and liquids Sunday through Tuesday and frequent urination (to the point of where my urine was near colorless at the test).

    Coupled with this information, would the 46 hours of non-drinking be enough to clear me of the ETG reading after the approximate 10-11 standard drinks throughout Sunday? Only about 3 of those drinks were 80 proof whiskey, 5 were regular strength wine, and 2 were wine coolers at 3.2%.

    Even at the time I was done drinking the Jim Beam (10:30 ish am on Sunday), had I not drank the rest of the day, I still would have had about 56 hours of no drinking until the test and most likely could have cleared the ETG (10:30 am Sun to 8:00 pm Tues).

    Am I missing something?

    Forgot to add...

    Since I still could have reasonably been cleared of ETG after quitting the whiskey at 10:30 am with 56 hours of no drinking, that means that from 3:00 pm to 10:00 pm on Sunday I had approximately 5 standard drinks (3 regular strength wine drinks and 2 wine coolers).

    Sooo... wouldn't that equate to 5 standard drinks with 46 hours of non drinking prior to the test?
  • Aug 22, 2012, 01:09 PM
    Firebutie76
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Firebutie76 View Post
    Forgot to add.....

    Since I still could have reasonably been cleared of ETG after quitting the whiskey at 10:30 am with 56 hours of no drinking, that means that from 3:00 pm to 10:00 pm on Sunday I had approximately 5 standard drinks (3 regular strength wine drinks and 2 wine coolers).

    Sooo......wouldn't that equate to 5 standard drinks with 46 hours of non drinking prior to the test?

    I have my sample sent out to Redwood, which I originally thought was a cutoff of 100 ng; however, upon reading their website, it is actually 500 ng unless a positive result is detected. The confirmation of this potentially positive result is then confirmed using a 100 ng cutoff.

    With the information provided, will approximately 10 standard drinks be clear of ETG after 46 hours of no drinking and a 500 ng cutoff?
  • Aug 22, 2012, 01:49 PM
    DrBill100
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Firebutie76 View Post
    Forgot to add.....

    Since I still could have reasonably been cleared of ETG after quitting the whiskey at 10:30 am with 56 hours of no drinking, that means that from 3:00 pm to 10:00 pm on Sunday I had approximately 5 standard drinks (3 regular strength wine drinks and 2 wine coolers).

    Sooo......wouldn't that equate to 5 standard drinks with 46 hours of non drinking prior to the test?

    Anything is possible with EtG. The most recent study out of Germany found that even in the detox setting, where all had admitting BACs above .20 some (26%) had no detectable EtG at 24 hours*. Yet under similar conditions others have found measurable EtG at 102 hours.

    Conversely I have personally investigated cases where no alcohol was consumed and totally abstinent individuals tested above 10,000 one at 24,000 ng.

    It is my conclusion that EtG cannot be predicted precisely on a drink/time scale.

    The timeline you set forth for 5 drinks at 46 hours is plausible but even then on the razors edge.

    Albermann, Musshoff, et al (2012)
  • Sep 5, 2012, 04:50 AM
    Firebutie76
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DrBill100 View Post
    Anything is possible with EtG. The most recent study out of Germany found that even in the detox setting, where all had admitting BACs above .20 some (26%) had no detectable EtG at 24 hours*. Yet under similar conditions others have found measurable EtG at 102 hours.

    Conversely I have personally investigated cases where no alcohol was consumed and totally abstinent individuals tested above 10,000 one at 24,000 ng.

    It is my conclusion that EtG cannot be predicted precisely on a drink/time scale.

    The timeline you set forth for 5 drinks at 46 hours is plausible but even then on the razors edge.

    Albermann, Musshoff, et al (2012)

    Dr. Bill100

    I just wanted to thank you for all of your valuable information that you willingly provide on this site. I wanted to give you an update regarding the status of my precarious situation as mentioned in these previous posts...

    I PASSED! : )

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