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    SRoth415's Avatar
    SRoth415 Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Mar 7, 2008, 10:38 PM
    No hot water pressure from water heater
    I have an electric water heater that is less than 5 years old. I have replaced both elements and the thermostats but get no pressure coming out of the water heater :mad: into a "Manablock" (sp?) water distribution system. There is water pressure going into the water heater, the cold water has a great deal of pressure but none from the water heater itself. Replaced a copper tube to make sure that no "junk" was in the line. We've got super hard water even though we have a whole house water filter installed. The filter was just replaced a couple of weeks ago so that isn't the problem.

    Any advice?

    Thanks.:)
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #2

    Mar 8, 2008, 04:49 AM
    Hi SRoth

    Hey, sounds like you have been busy. Unfortunately, I have some more work for you to do.

    Tell me is the loss of pressure/volume something that is new? Or has this issue been there since the heater was installed 5 years ago?

    If this was me, based on information I have from you right now, I would start at the water heater nipples and the dip tube of the heater (under or attached to the COLD water nipple).

    Here, shut water to heater, open lowest hot water faucet to release pressure, drain off 3-5 gallons at the heater itself and then cut into the hot and cold water pipes (*sorry*) anywhere that will allow you to remove the pipe sections easily. Then back off the pipe/fittings... then look down inside the nipples. If a heat trap present in nipple you may not be able to see through the nipples (rubber flapper over end)... IF this is the case, then remove the nipples completely and look at them... what do you see... scale/buildup, etc.

    Brass nipples can even be worse for electrolytic deposit at a water heater and can be choked down to almost closed. Anyway, check the nipples... if the heat trap type just discard and replace with new dielectric nipples... OR if no issue wrap them with teflon tape/pipe dope and reinstall.

    At this time, take a bucket and turn on the cold water shutoff and see if that is delivering good volume/pressure into the unit.. if not, the shutoff may need to be replaced.

    Before re-installing the nipples look into the cold water feed tapping at your heater... there should be a white or clear plastic DIP TUBE that you can see. Check to see if perhaps when the unit got installed the dip tube got melted/misshaped... that would certainly reduce hot water out.

    You could also flush your water heater (if really hard water you want to do this bi-monthly anyway). Here, with water on to heater just attach hose to drain and open full pressure for 5 minutes or so (some say for 20 minutes... not me)... that should help remove sediment at bottom of tank and increase the life of that water heater and reduce chances of clogging pipes/faucets elsewhere in the house.

    And while I have you... if you want to really work on your heater to increase the years of reliable service, YOU may want to inspect the ANODE ROD at this time... NOW, the anode rod is either at the top of the water heater under its own large nut or it is part of the hot water nipple (which means when you pull that hot water nipple you will find this under it if present on nipple... see picture with nipple). If it is under its own large nut on top of heater, then using a 6 point, 1-1/16" or 1-1/8" socket and a persuader bar... while heater is shutoff in above nipple inspection... unscrew the nut and inspect the anode rod... check out the picture I have of an old vs new anode rod... if it looks bad, it probably is and should be replaced (about $30-40.00 at home supply store).

    Depending on water type you may need to change your rod every 5 years or so... IT is a sacrificial rod that breaks down easily so the water heater tappings do not break down as quickly and kill the heater. The last picture is a collapsable anode rod that is used in tight places.

    OK.. there... done for now. Let me know what you think... get back to us with any questions. If this helped, please RATE THIS ANSWER... Thank you... MARK


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    SRoth415's Avatar
    SRoth415 Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Mar 8, 2008, 06:26 AM
    Mark,

    This is a relatively new problem, just started about a week ago and have been trying to fix for about that long after work.

    Last night, I had cut the hot water pipe and ran a "snake" down the tube to check for blockage of some sort. The snake forced a small amount of hot water out of the tube. I tried to remove the brass fitting that is on the hot water side but it is so corroded (or the plumber who installed it used pipe dope to make sure it wouldn't leak) that I couldn't get it off. I didn't do anything last night to the cold water side because I thought that there was enough pressure going into the unit that it wasn't the problem.

    What kind of wrench will break loose a really corroded fitting? I sprayed WD40 on it and it won't budge with a small pipe wrench!

    I am getting frustrated enough that I am about to cut the hot and cold water lines and go buy a new water heater. If it is the shut off valve or the dip tube, I'd feel really stupid and mad at myself for not thinking of those things prior to replacing the water heater.

    My rating for your answer: 10 stars out of 10

    Thanks for your quick reply.
    Eric D's Avatar
    Eric D Posts: 98, Reputation: 4
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    #4

    Mar 8, 2008, 06:48 AM
    SRoth,

    You might be able to check the in-flow of water to the heater by using the drain valve at the bottom of the tank. Hook a hose to it and turn it on full. If the flow is restricted here you would know that the inlet is as well. If you get a good streem of water out the drain then the inlet has to be free. By doing this check you would know for sure that your tank outlet is the point of restriction. It sounds like you have found it with the corroded fitting.

    On getting the corroded fitting out, use a much larger wench and if possible, you might want to place a smaller nipple inside the one you are trying to remove to keep from collapsing the corroded one while turn it out. Depending on how bad it is you may need someone to hold the tank from twisting while you wrench on the fitting.

    Keep us posted on how you make out.

    Regards,

    Eric D
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
    Eternal Plumber
     
    #5

    Mar 8, 2008, 06:52 AM
    Do not replace the water heater just yet. It doesn't sound like the heater's at fault. Put a large pipe wrench on the hot water side nipple and turn it out counterclockwise. Is it full of gunk? If so follow Massplumbers advice and replace with a dielectric nipple and see if that doesn't take care of the pressure problem. And checkingthe anode rod at this time would be a very good idea. Good luck, Tom
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #6

    Mar 8, 2008, 08:07 AM
    Hi again SRoth

    I think Eric had a good idea about checking for cold water pressure at the drain of heater... if it is good, then go for the hot water side.

    But if poor... could be the cold water inlet OR the fact that the drain itself is plugged with sediment and then you are back to square one anyway!

    Also, like Eric said... use larger wrench OR a persuader on your smaller wrench (large piece of pipe, for example)... it will come out. For the anode, if separate nut as mentioned, need a socket wrench and that persuader again to put over ratchet tool end to get enough leverage to get it out.

    Keep us posted... and Like Speedball said... don't replace the heater YET!

    Talk soon... MARK
    SRoth415's Avatar
    SRoth415 Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Mar 9, 2008, 03:43 PM
    Thanks guys! I had already opened the drain valve and got a pretty good stream of water out.

    I've been gone all weekend so haven't had time to implement your suggestions and advice. When I do, I will let you know.

    Thanks.
    SRoth415's Avatar
    SRoth415 Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Mar 10, 2008, 08:07 PM
    Got the hot water outlet fitting out by using the "persuader", took a little bit of "persuading" and the air turned a little blue, if you know what I mean, but I got it out. Anyway, there was no "crud" in that pipe so I reassembled it. Now, I have to wait until tomorrow night to cut the cold water pipe and check the flow in as suggested earlier. Why wait, live too far away from home center to run in for parts, especially with gas at $3.20 gal. Work not too far from home center so will get shut off valve, pipe, anode rod and pipe fittings to reassemble tomorrow night.

    Forgot to mention that the water heater is in the basement and I live in a "raised ranch" style house, no second floor on top of main floor, just attic space. Does it matter which hot water faucet I turn on?
    Thanks for all of your help! Will let you know how I make out.
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #9

    Mar 11, 2008, 04:48 AM
    Hi Sroth

    When you had the hot water pipe cut... any chance you tested for full pressure out of the hot pipe at that time.. Just wondering?

    Sounds like cold water in may be OK already... but if you dare... can check it out anyway... if the dip tube is bent or misshapen could effect things a little.

    This manifold (grouping of pipes... yes?).. describe it to us. Is it plastic? 3/4", 1/2"? Is it a 1" manifold that distibutes 1/2" out to all..

    And it does not matter which sink you open, just matters that when you open faucets after you re-fill the tank that you purge through a tub or fixture that does not have an aerator, then purge air from lines at other faucets.

    Sorry not any easier then it is... but answer has to be right in front of us... keep us posted... Thank you.
    SRoth415's Avatar
    SRoth415 Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Mar 11, 2008, 06:55 AM
    I live in the country and have my own well. I've installed a GE whole house water filter to keep the lines from getting full of sand, grit, rust, etc. Just installed that a couple of months ago. The pipe into the house is 1". The pipes into the water heater are 3/4" copper. The pipes out are a mixture of 3/4" copper and 3/4" plastic pipe. Those pipes then feed into the "Manablock" distribution center that reduces the lines down to 1/2". The pipes out of the distribution center are 1/2" plastic (Pex? Or whatever the manufacturer of the Manablock system calls it) going to all of the fixtures, toilets, showers, sinks. These were installed by a plumber when I built the house 5 years ago.

    There was NO pressure out of the hot water tank when the pipe was off and the cold water shut off was open. The tank is completely full of water but NO pressure comes out. I'll get a dip tube as well and replace it.

    Thanks for your help!
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #11

    Mar 11, 2008, 08:55 AM
    Got you! Talk soon.
    SRoth415's Avatar
    SRoth415 Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Mar 11, 2008, 06:06 PM
    Mark,

    Uh, Houston, we have LIFTOFF at 45 minutes past the hour!

    Removed the cold water inlet line and found scale deposits in the copper tubing. Removed the dip tube and found it to be plugged with sandy like deposits. Had bought a new dip tube but it wouldn't fit my tank, too large. Used a snake to clear out the blockage. Reinstalled the old dip tube that was now clear of obstruction. Opened up the cold water inlet valve and had TONS of pressure. Soldered the copper tube back together using a 3/4" coupling. Opened up the cold water inlet and got pressure back into the water heater. Found a small leak in the hot water pipe, closed the cold water inlet valve and soldered that back together. Opened the cold water inlet, no leaks! Opened up the distribution valves to all fixtures and opened up faucets, showers. Got more pressure than we've had in years!

    Couple of more questions-What is the function of the dip tube other than to let water in and plug up?

    Second question: I have a couple of toilets that do not have cold water pressure in the lines going into them. What would be the best way to clear whatever blockage there is in those lines so that water will flow into the toilets? I tried blowing them out with both my lungs and an air compressor, to no avail. Not sure that they make a snake long enough to snake through the entire line.


    I want to thank you guys, all of you, for all of the help with this problem. "Mama" is now happy that she can take a shower without having to heat water on the stove! If "Mama" ain't happy, ain't nobody happy, are they?

    Best Regards to all of you,

    SRoth
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #13

    Mar 11, 2008, 06:28 PM
    Hey SROTH:

    You know I am super glad to hear you fixed it!! Good for you... tons of patience!

    1) Purpose of dip tube is to send cold water to bottom of tank to be heated... without dip tube, heater would draw cold off top of heater into hot tapping... very little hot water this way. Also, dip tube acts to distribute/disturb sediment on tank bottom every time tank adds cold water.

    2) Let us know if inside tank looks like #1 (newer parts) or #2 (older style)type fill valves... may need to disassemble to clear of debris (makes sense, too).

    Get back to us... Mark
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    Eric D's Avatar
    Eric D Posts: 98, Reputation: 4
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    #14

    Mar 12, 2008, 03:31 AM
    SROTH,

    Having hot water again can change the whole disposition of the house and those that live in it. I think it falls into the category of "You don't know what you got until it's gone!"

    I'm happy you got things back up and running. As Mark put it, you have more patience then most folks not to mention your wife!

    Regards,

    Eric D
    SRoth415's Avatar
    SRoth415 Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Mar 12, 2008, 06:08 AM
    Thanks, guys.

    The inside of tank is newer style parts. I already replaced the inner workings and still have no pressure in the lines coming into the toilets. Is there a good way to clear the lines other than cutting them, blowing out the lines and then reassembling or just blowing them out without cutting them. The small line from the wall is clear but no water out of the line inside the wall.

    Thanks.
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #16

    Mar 12, 2008, 06:40 AM
    Sroth... can always disassemble the shutoff at the stem packing nut... must shut off water, then turn the packing nut counterclockwise to loosen, then spin the stem and the packing nut out together. Then have someone turn on water main for 2 seconds or less (have bucket in front of shutoff). Once flowing good, re-assemble and should be all set.

    SEE PIC. To get idea of what I mean. Let me know if this worked.

    If this helped, please RATE MY ANSWERS by clicking on rate this answer button at upper right or at bottom of this post. Thank you... Mark

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    SRoth415 Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Mar 13, 2008, 01:05 PM
    I should have mentioned that the shut off was already disassembled but no water out. I tried blowing out the line with compressed air. Didn't really want to cut the plastic line going to fixtures but guess I will have to unless you have other suggestions.
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #18

    Mar 13, 2008, 04:46 PM
    Sroth... do we have yet ANOTHER issue on our hands.. :p

    Hey, you know what.. You did a great job sticking to the job at hand last issue. This issue... sounds like you are headed in the right direction. You have done the most obvious, now go deeper into it... I think you know what to do. We are glad to assist... let us know.

    Now all I need is your name and address so I can officially sign you up for you apprentice license :D

    That's almost not a joke... you know that if I employ an individual for more then 24 hours I have to register them as an apprentice OR MY LICENSE COULD BE SUBJECT TO REVOCATION... LOL!! I swear...
    SRoth415's Avatar
    SRoth415 Posts: 10, Reputation: 1
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    #19

    Mar 14, 2008, 04:59 AM
    I'd probably make more as an apprentice plumber than I do as an accountant with bachelor's degree and 24 years experience. If you really want my name & address, send me your e-mail & I'll give it to you!

    Thanks for all your help!
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #20

    Mar 14, 2008, 05:00 AM
    You did great job. You ever solve the toilet issue?

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