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skipper1usa · May 18, 2013, 04:35 AM

My cold water pipe shake and make loud knocking noise when turn on the water or flush the toilets. I tried to bleed air from the entire house (shut off the main water valve from the street, completely drain all water out of all faucets, released the little screw cap in the water line, which feed the outside garden faucets, in the basement of to let water out.
I then slowly turned back on the main water valve, allow water to flush the garden faucets, then turn back on other faucets. I still have pipe shake problem. Later I found out that when shaking occurs, I could reduce or eliminate it by shutting off the valves in the basement (which feed the outside garden faucets).
Any suggestion? Please advise. Thank you.

speedball1 · May 18, 2013, 11:35 AM

I found out that when shaking occurs, I could reduce or eliminate it by shutting off the valves in the basement (which feed the outside garden faucets).

This sounds like L"seat chatter" in the outside faucet except to have seat chatter water must be running through the valve. Can you furnish more details? Back to you, Tom

skipper1usa · May 18, 2013, 12:03 PM

Hi Tom,
Thank you for your review and response.

I am not sure what is L "seat chatter" is. The pipes shook when we turned on water or flush the toilet. When the shaking occurs, I partially closed the two valves for the garden faucets, the shaking stopped. But when we turned on the cold water on the 2nd floor again, the shaking came back, this time I completely shut the valves off. Now with the 2 valves completely shut off, no more shaking.

I do not have backflow preventers in the garden faucets, I used to have them, but I took them out several years ago. The shaking just started about two weeks ago, at first it the shaking was very subtle, but it gets louder in time.

Should replacement of the 2 water valves for the garden faucets fix this issue?

Handyman2007 · May 18, 2013, 03:39 PM

You have a problem called "hammering". It is annoying as Hell and I have seen it actually break water pipes. A plumber can install what I call equalization stacks on the cold and hot water lines. They are sections of pipe anywhere from 6" to a foot installed vertically on pipes to equalize the pressure so the " to a foot installed vertically on pipes to equalize the pressure so the " does not occur. They hold a column of air that equal;izes the pressure when water is drawn from the faucets.
I know, someone is going to crucify me for not using the correct terminology but learned it from my Dad,, God Rest His Soul!

mygirlsdad77 · May 18, 2013, 04:51 PM

Handy, your description of the solution is spot on. Im not going to crucify you on your terminology because you described it just like it should be. I will just let you know the name of what you described to solve "water hammer". Water hammer arrestor, or hammer arrestor. Back in the day, they did exactly what you describe, these days, they make manufactured hammer arrestors that are precharged. The nice thing about the old ways is it is easy to drain the system down to replenish the air in the arrestors, while with the manufactured ones, when they fail you have to replace them.

Lee.

skipper1usa · May 18, 2013, 05:14 PM

Handy and MyGirlsdad,
Thanks for your review and comments.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought "water hammer" occurs after you closed the faucet, or the water flow from the filling tank is suddenly stop, and so because the flow is suddenly stop it backs up into the pipe bends thus creating the hammer effect. When I finished my basement bathroom, the plumber installed an extra piece of pipe to serve as arrestor for the toilet, no water hammer at this spot .
My problem: the shaking occurs while the water is running. What I don't understand is why I have this problem just about 2 weeks ago, after I have lived in this house for 13 years.

mygirlsdad77 · May 18, 2013, 05:33 PM

Skipper, you are mostly correct about what water hammer is. It can also be cause by a great number of other factors. Tom suggested that the water hammer may be caused by a loose "seat" washer. In this case, if the washer in a stop, or hose bib is loose, it will cause extreme vibrations in the piping as the rubber washer slams back and forth.

Now, if when you completely shut off the hose bibbs (garden faucets) the hammering quits, then you should be able to simply remove the stem of the bibb and tighten the screw that holds the "seat" washer in place. If you shut the water off to the home, and remove the stem via the packing nut on the bibb, you will see the washer and screw that I speak of. Take this step first and see if it cures the problem. Like I said, there are many things that can cause this, but from what you have told us, I certainly have to suspect the garden faucets/hose bibbs at this point. Easy fix, no need to replace (hopefully).

Lee.

skipper1usa · May 19, 2013, 06:53 AM

Lee,

I meant the inside valves to the hose bibs. My outside hose bibs are in closed position. The hammering quits when I shut off the 2 inside valves, located in the basement, which feed the hose bibs.

I notice when the water is running, a valve (see photos) about 24" above the house main water valve is making strange noise, it seems the water is not flowing smoothly across this device, thus creating this noise. Based on the tag on this device, it appears to be a pressure regulator to control the water pressure coming into the house.

Is it possible this device is bad or had a washer inside which is bad and can be replaced? Thanks.

Handyman2007 · May 19, 2013, 07:26 AM

Those are pressure regulators(adjustable). I do not know the reason they would be there except to be able to lower the pressure on the outside faucets. You can't increase the pressure unless the feed pressure is higher than the regulator pressure. Have you tried opening them up all the way to see if that stops the "hammering"? I would try that.

Handyman2007 · May 19, 2013, 07:32 AM

After re reading your original posts and then putting it all together, I think you are getting things all mixed up. When you turn off the water to the house, the shaking stops"? Correct? OR when you turn off the hose bibs outside it stops? That pressure regulator is on the feed to the house from the municipal water system? It is possible, and only a distant possibility that they regulator may be gunked up with calcium deposits that are causing an erratic flow. Opening it all the way may tell you it that is a problem. I am just shooting in the dark at this point.

skipper1usa · May 19, 2013, 08:02 AM

Handyman,

No! The shaking stops when I turned down or turned off the 2 inside red handle valves to outside hose bibs (at this juncture the outside garden hose bibs were in closed position). These 2 valves coming off the main line, at an L shape angle above the pressure regulator (see photo).

skipper1usa · May 19, 2013, 09:14 AM

I followed the instruction from the previous reviewer (for some reason his post is not shown anymore), I opened the regulator and found some gunk on the washer, I cleaned it up a bit, it shows some deterioration, put it back and the strange noise is not there anymore. I partially opened the 2 red valves, opened some faucets and flushed the toilets, no Shaking! However, when I opened the cold water faucet to the bathtub/Jacuzzi at 1 complete revolution, things seems OK, but when I opened to 1.5 revolution, the shaking came back. It seems the regulator is not able to handle the strong pressure when opened the faucet at certain degree.
This has been educational for me. Maybe replacement of the washer may solve this issue!
I will go to Homedepot or hardware store to find a replacement for the washer.
How do you adjust the pressure regulator?

skipper1usa · May 19, 2013, 10:47 AM

All,

I figured out how to adjust the regulator. So I had the wife turned on the bathtub at 1 revolution, then gradually increased to 1.5, and flushed the toilet at the same time, the shaking came back, I then tighten the screw on the regulator with the 2 red hose bibs valves in open position, the shaking stopped. Then I asked the wife to turn the bathtub to full, the shaking came on again, I tightened the screw more until the shaking stopped. Now with the bathtub faucet fully opened, the 2 red hose bibs valves open in full position, flushing the toilet at the same time without any more shaking.
I think I solved the problem... for now. Thank you all for your contribution and advices.
Best regards and Gob Bless.

massplumber2008 · May 19, 2013, 11:42 AM

Sorry, I was adding to the post and deleted it instead of posting it!

It certainly sounds like you are on track now, but if needed, replacing the regulator will probably take less time than trying to repair it!

Good luck!

Mark