Okay so if he still has to pay then can someone please tell me why the mother of the children was able to sign her rights away and over to her mother in order to not have to pay child support? And can someone please tell me why the state now says my husband now has no rights to his children because he signed temporary guardianship over to the grandmother of the kids back in 2005 because we were living in a different state and couldn't take care of them at the time?

Okay so my husband and the mother of his children divorced back in Feb 2003. In 2005 the mother went to prison and before she went they moved the kids from state to state changing phone numbers and addresses so we never had contact with the kids.During this time the mother signed her rights over to the grandmother and yes I have seen the public records on all of this, I am VERY familiar with blackbook. In 2005 we received a request asking us to sign temporary guardianship over to the grandmother. We called and got a free consultation with an attorney in that county and asked if this would relinquish my husbands rights to the kids. We were told "absolutely not, this will allow the grandmother to better care for the children." (dr's appt. and such) During all their moving around in 2005 we had extremely limited phone calls with the kids because the grandmother kept changing her number, wouldn't answer the phone, any of the games similar to this. We finally found them back in Oklahoma in 2008. My husband was allowed to have them the majority of the summer. Once school started up though she again reverted back to not answering her phone and ignoring calls. We have tried to get proof of this but unfortunately at the time our phone would only hold record of actual calls and no attempts. Now this past summer when we went to the courthouse that has handled all the rights on the children, we were informed that when he signed over temporary guardianship that he signed away all rights. Granted my husband has been out of work now for a while... YES he has been looking for work. We are behind on child support but still making payments each month. We can't afford an attorney and no longer trust attorneys in the county they are located in. So without the grandmother allowing us visitation anymore... we haven't been allowed to speak to the children since July, (and have been told by the kids that they ask to call and are told no) yes we are considering him signing rights away. Will he still have to pay child support? She doesn't so why would he? By the way... the mother has been out of prison since March 2010.

If your question is whether your husband has to pay child support (and I believe it is) he does have to pay as long as there is a Court Order ORDERING him to pay. The way to change that is to go back to Court, prove changed circumstances and get a new Order.

She doesn't have to because no one has asked the Court for an Order ordering her to pay - that would be the "job" of the legal guardian.

Which State handled the temporary guardianship? State laws vary.

But she has been asked to at one point. She signed the rights away and no longer has to pay. Oklahoma has handled everything. How can they take rights away with him just signing temporary guardianship?

I don't know that they can. I'll have to look at the law. I thought you were asking about paying support, not about restoring your husband's rights.

What does the Court Order say - or the guardianship papers, whichever you have.

First, I moved your question to its own thread. Its not a good idea to piggyback your question on another thread. This can lead to confusion.

The original thread stated Oklahoma, is that the state where this occurred? We can't tell you why this happened without seeing the court orders. But I suspect that the grandmother adopted the children. A parent can't just sign over rights, but someone can adopt the children which terminates the parents rights.

As to your husband, you need to see the temporary guardianship order he signed. Its possible he was agreeing to an adoption, not just turning over guardianship temporarily.

Checked the law - please check your papers and tell us what your husband signed.

I understand why you would think that, but I can 100% assure you that it was not an adoption. I was there and read the paperwork and I was also there when the attorney that we did a free consultation with said the papers would just allow the grandmother to take them to the doctor or even enroll them in school and that we would not be signing rights away. My husband has still NOT signed his rights away. I understand everyone's need to rationalize this as that my husband may have signed rights away without me knowing but I can assure you that is not the case. I'm 100% positive that this is a case of corruption and have given up on anyone ever helping us.

We were never given copies of the paper and we had to argue with the court clerk to get her to even get a judge to tell us that the guardianship papers took away his rights and trump the rights he had been given in their divorce. Everything was done by mail and phone. Point blank we either want custody of the kids or at least the right to see them. We pay on child support every month. But it's really frustrating to pay child support when we can't see them. I don't understand how this is all legal. I do know that when the papers came we did a free consultation with a lawyer in that area of Oklahoma and he assured us that it would NOT take away my husbands rights as a parent. And his parental rights are not the only issue I have seen that looks corrupt in this county. I watch the records and I have tried to get attention on this county. They are doing virtually whatever they want to do down there. I've seen records of people busted repeatedly for methamphetamines and not do any prison/probation time. I'm not talking small amounts. And maybe all of this sounds crazy, but I have seen it several times over in this county. To be honest, I've been trying to fight this county corruption for nearly 9 years and I have about given up. We both have which is the only reason we have even thought about signing away rights.

Then ask for the papers under the Freedom of Information Act. Maybe it doesn't seem fair BUT support and visitation/custody are two different issues. You can pay support and be denied the right to see the chldren.

Without knowing all the details of your situation and all the details of the other situations you are referencing it's impossible to know if something "corrupt" is going on.

Go to the newspapers, TV studios, get press coverage if you believe what you are saying.

Being "busted" repeatedly for drugs and not doing prison or probation has nothing to do with child support and visitation. It's two entirely different arms of the law.

The Court cannot refuse to give you your own paperwork. File under the Freedom of Information Act.

But how can they take the rights away that were given in the divorce with a temporary guardianship.

First, do you have a question here? I'm not sure you aren't just venting.

Second, you say the state is saying he has no rights. Well the state can't talk. So that means some person, in some agency is telling you that he has no rights. Have you asked that person to produce a court order stating his rights were terminated?

If you want us to try to help you, you need to provide information and specify a question.

I'm sorry for jumping around so much... I'm getting frustrated because it seems like we can't get any help. I only make so much money as a soldier so I've been trying to find out the answers I need. I wish I could give you more, but we have had to fight just to get the info we did. It was a court clerk that told us the guardianship trumps whatever was set in the divorce papers as far as rights to the kids go. We just want to be able to see and talk to his kids. I guess that's the biggest issue. Is this legal for this all to happen this way? And I'm sorry for being all over the place, but please understand how frustrating this is for us as well and how it feels to be blocked out of their lives.

We understand the frustration, but the problem is we only know what you tell us. And when you tell us things that don't jive with our knowledge of the law, then we have to question it.

The court clerk is correct when he says the guardianship trumps the divorce papers. But that doesn't mean the guardianship is not reversible. It also doesn't mean that he has no rights. Also, you are saying the guardianship agreement was temporary. So he should be able to go to court and state that he is revoking the guardianship and wants custody restored to him.

Has he tried that?

That I don't know unless/until I see the wording in the Court papers. It's possible there was a Hearing and your husband (as I recall) was found unfit or there was a Hearing and he wasn't notified or the Judge was in a really bad mood that day.

"How" and "why" can't be answered without more info - so get the paperwork, come back and let me know what it says.

You can also go to a Superior Court, file a Motion to get the temporary guardianship papers (or whatever they are) set aside and as part of that action subpoena ALL of the Court papers in the first action.

But you have to be proactive, VERY proactive. If the other parent did something unusual (to put it kindly) they CAN be ordered to pay the father's legal bills - just remember to request payment of those bills. The Court does not want an innocent party to be harmed, and that includes spending money.

You sound like a fighter (Wish you were on MY team!). Do your research and get moving.

I just noticed your other thread on this, and have merged the two threads since they bear on the same issue.

As I said previously something does not sound right here. You need to get copies of all court orders pertaining to the child and bring them to an attorney to make sense of.

My next then is this... What do I do in the case that the court in question refuses to give us copies of the papers pertaining to this case? My husband and I do not reside in this state because I am in the military. I was trying to gather documents to take to JAG which is how we ran into this in the first place. If there was a court date set other than the temporary guardianship hearing, we were never informed of it.

I wouldn't jump ahead of myself, making plans for "if" the Court refuses to give you papers.

Your husband sends a letter to the Court Clerk and asks for a copy of the papers. It would be a good idea to send proof of his ID, such as a copy of his driver license.

I wouldn't get in a knot over what will happen if they refuse the request unless and until the request is refused.

That's what I'm saying... they refused to give us any paperwork the last time I tried to gather the info for JAG. They said the judge had the case locked. When they saw I was getting angry over a custody case that my husband hadn't signed rights away on they then offered to take his ID to the judge. Only after this was done did they verbally tell us anything and we were still never given copies. When my mother-in-law picked up the copies of divorce decree the child support amount had been set, and scratched out SEVERAL times and re-written in. I don't know too many counties that allow this practice. Normally if things change, don't they have to re-do the paperwork? That's not too important though. The big question is HOW do I get the paperwork?

First, you have no legal standing here so you husband needs to do this. HE needs to sign the papers and HE needs to make the phone calls. You can call for information, but HE needs to take action.

Second, they cannot legally refuse HIM the paperwork for a case that he is part of. If they do refuse to send it, then ask a JAG lawyer to prepare a legal subpoena for the case files.