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    protectivemama's Avatar
    protectivemama Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jun 26, 2010, 05:31 PM
    Children touching other children inappropriately
    My nephew is 10 and my daughter is 7, she said that he touched her bum under the covers, that was last year. I told my sister and she got mad at me and said my husband blew it out of proportion, I was concerned about her son. We stayed away awhile and when together made sure they were supervised. NOW, my husband caught them in the pool together and jumped apart and pulled their pants up, he sent her in to tell me what they were doing and she said he put his bum on my bum, I'm sorry! He is speechless when confronted. I had my father pick him up instead of spending the night. While waiting for my dad to come I heard her say "don't grab my butt" when is this typical kid touching like my dad says? And when should something be done about it like my husband says? He also plays with his 8 year old neighbor girl daily, what is he doing to her? My sister took the last time so lightly as wrong and then was mad at me that I hate to mention it again but want help for her son if needed, I will definitely take my child to a counselor. Is this normal behavior / touching?
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #2

    Jun 26, 2010, 05:36 PM

    Only you know the context, and sadly today many 10 year old know more about sex than kids at 15 did in my day. Girls 12 are getting pregnant more and more.

    In days past, kids explored, and questioned and tried to look and find out things. It was somewhat inocent but then
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #3

    Jun 27, 2010, 05:07 AM
    I think they both need to be confronted about this. While your nephew may be the instigator, your daughter pulled her pants off in the pool. You are concerned about your nephew and rightly so, but I would be equally concerned about both of them, in light of this second incident.

    By now your daughter should have learned about private parts, and nobody touches them, and when and if they do, she should tell you immediately. She told you of the touching under the covers, and you did the right thing there in telling your sister.

    I hope you reinforced the 'no touching' to your daughter at that time, which is why I say she needs to be talked to again if there was any voluntary participation in taking off her bathing suit in the pool with her nephew.

    You have little control over your sisters reaction, or what she does about it. I hope her head is not too far in the sand to realize that what he is doing is, at the least, very inappropriate, and he has to stop. I too would be concerned about the female child he plays with at home.

    Personally, I would document both incidents with dates and times, and not allow them together at all. That would send a clear message to both your nephew and his mother, that you are alarmed enough about his behaviour, not to have him in your home. He is old enough to understand the consequences of his actions.

    If this were not your nephew, but a neighbourhood kid, would you be so tolerant?
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #4

    Jun 27, 2010, 05:24 AM

    I think the nephew is over the age for this to be considered natural curiosity. But, not knowing the child or the parental environment, I'm loathe to make a determination of sexual problems in the boy.

    But this needs to be dealt with swiftly and strongly by his parents. I would also tell his parents, that if they don't do something about it, you will be forced to talk to the parents of his other playmate.

    I also agree with Jake that your daughter needs to be talked to. While she is closer to the age of innocent exploration, she apparently has been taught about inappropriate touching since she reported the first incident. But I have to wonder what prompted her to pull her bottom down or, let him pull it down. She should have yelled when he tried.
    mrshodges's Avatar
    mrshodges Posts: 208, Reputation: 34
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    #5

    Jun 27, 2010, 08:52 AM

    I would forget about my sisters reaction and worry about my daughters wellbeing. Keep them apart and talk to your daughter. Go over the body and the no touch rules, again if you already did.
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    redhed35 Posts: 4,221, Reputation: 1910
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    #6

    Jun 27, 2010, 09:16 AM

    http://www.cac-kent.org/pdfs/body_safety_handbook.pdf

    If you scroll down to 'how do I respond to sexualized behaviours' in the link above it gives good pointers on how to go about explaining body parts and personal safety to children.

    There's a section on playing 'what if' games,which can be very useful to find out what your child would do if faced with a similar situation.

    Its important not to say its wrong or bad or dirty.
    septemberlove's Avatar
    septemberlove Posts: 30, Reputation: 11
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    #7

    Jul 11, 2010, 05:20 AM
    This is completely inappropriate. It is not okay, and it can be hard for someone to admit that there might be an issue. I don't know your nephew's home life or what he has/has not been taught about privacy, but I definitely think this should not be overlooked. If you allow him back into your home, you need to pull him aside and have a one-on-one conversation with him. He needs to know that it is completely unacceptable for him to talk to your daughter about her body or touch her in any way. Monitor their behavior, and if you notice anything you deem inappropriate immediately remove him from the situation, and explain to your daughter that this behavior is not OK.

    I hate to suggest it, but I would investigate the possibility of your nephew experiencing abuse.

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    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #8

    Jul 11, 2010, 05:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by septemberlove View Post
    If you allow him back into your home, you need to pull him aside and have a one-on-one conversation with him.
    I have to disagree with this point. It is not the OP's responsibility to talk to her nephew. This has to be left to his parents. The OP has the option to not let the nephew visit or never leave him alone with her daughter.
    septemberlove's Avatar
    septemberlove Posts: 30, Reputation: 11
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    #9

    Jul 11, 2010, 01:58 PM
    Yes, but if she sees something happening in her home, I believe she has every right to tell him her expectations and the rules regarding her daughter.

    Remember, this is her nephew... not a random child at the park.
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    positiveparent Posts: 1,136, Reputation: 291
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    #10

    Jul 12, 2010, 07:59 AM

    This could blow out of all proportion these are kids 7 & 10 years old, the best thing for both parents to do would be to get together with the 2 children and calmly explain that boys and girls are different and that pulling their pants or bathing suits down in front of each other isn't really the right thing to do.

    Although at 7 and 10 it is probably harmless, kids are curious about their bodies especially boy and girl children they usually want to show the other theirs and vice versa, you can tell them not to do this and explain why, or tell them that until they're grown ups they shouldn't do this, get a book with the bodies of girl and boy and explain to them the different parts and which ones are OK to touch and which aren't.

    This is hardly a child predator the boys 10 the girls 7 they're children and possibly are just curious.

    Sit down and talk it over with the boys mother, and between you both come to some compromise, by making it forbidden and taboo all that's going to do is make it more appealing to both of them. Plus it will have them growing up thinking their bodies are dirty or not to be touched.

    I used to get in the bath with my brothers all of them older than myself until they were well over 12, and I would be curious and asked what's that so would they, we didn't grow into sex offenders though, its probably children being children.

    IMO if you make a big deal of it that's more dangerous than ignoring it. Whilst I accept we in the UK are different to those in the USA, children are children anywhere, and they get curious.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #11

    Jul 12, 2010, 08:09 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by positiveparent View Post
    Although at 7 and 10 it is probably harmless, kids are curious about their bodies especially boy and girl children they usually want to show the other theirs and vice versa,

    ...
    This is hardly a child predator the boys 10 the girls 7 theyre children and possibly are just curious.
    Not in today's world. At 10 the boy should know better. This is natural in children 3-4 years younger, but not in this age group. At least for the boy.

    Besides which this was not an isolated incident. It happened before and they were warned at that time.
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #12

    Jul 12, 2010, 10:24 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by protectivemama View Post
    my husband caught them in the pool together and jumped apart and pulled their pants up, he sent her in to tell me what they were doing and she said he put his bum on my bum, I'm sorry!. While waiting for my dad to come I heard her say "don't grab my butt"
    This clearly indicates a problem. This is far beyond simple curiosity, particularly at these ages.

    Nor is it, or should it be a debate as to whether Americans or British adults view this as harmless curiosity. It is not harmless, it is not mere curiosity, and it has nothing to do with where the adults live. I would presume any country, with access to a computer, library, and public services, would agree.

    Two children, engaging, on more than one occasion, in inappropriate SEXUAL play, needs immediate intervention.
    AskTheKitty's Avatar
    AskTheKitty Posts: 24, Reputation: 10
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    #13

    Jul 16, 2010, 07:25 AM
    Sexual attitudes in general seems to differ between the UK and us from what I've learned. Sexuality in general is seen as more natural and accepted over there in contrast to the U.S. I believe that is all that PP was saying.

    IMO, children being curious about their bodies and those of other children is
    Normal, but inappropriate touching after being told NO, is not.
    I'm not saying this young boy is some sort of deviant, but clearly he does not understand boundaries.
    Anything done to your child that causes him/her to be uncomfortable should be addressed at once. A child should never be made to feel that their concerns aren't valid. Your daughter opened up to you about being touched in her bed 1 year ago, so
    Obviously this was NOT insignificant to her. Having her pants pulled down in the pool and being pressed up against is definitely inappropriate. Any inappropriate touching can be psychologically harmful, just as molestation is from older adults. The effects are the same. Even if the boy's intentions were just childhood curiosity, his behavior is harmful when it involves someone else who is not willing, and who has told him to stop. He's not stopping when asked and he's not respecting your daughter's boundaries. Your sister may not be able to accept the fact that her son is doing these things, and perhaps may think his actions are being exxagerated, but she does need to respect your wanting to protect your daughter from any and all unwanted touching, even if it's from her own son. Children are becoming more sexual at earlier ages these days, but it's important for them to learn to respect others' boundaries and to learn what is and isn't acceptable. They shouldn't be told that their sexual feelings are wrong or dirty, just that they need to respect the rights and feelings of others.

    Any child who isn't told that innapropriate touching is OK is bound to repeat their behavior, and those who are being abused and their concerns aren't being dealt with might grow up to think it's OK for other adults to touch them, because it's just considered "curiosity." I'm not a mother, but if any child of mine were being touched in such a way, personally I'd have reacted in a similar manner.
    AskTheKitty's Avatar
    AskTheKitty Posts: 24, Reputation: 10
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    #14

    Jul 16, 2010, 07:30 AM
    The above should read, Any child who isn't told that inappropriate touching is NOT OK...
    protectivemama's Avatar
    protectivemama Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Jul 18, 2010, 08:50 PM
    Thank you to everyone for their input. To add to the story and some of your questions. Yes, when it did happen as a touch a year ago, we talked to our daughter about private parts and inappropriate touching. Now that I put all of this together, the 10 year old always tells my daughter that she has to listen to him because he is older and he is the king / ruler, and she must do as he says, just in general play but I guess this is all tied together. He is on medication for ADHD and actually has several signs for bipolar, many of the ADHD symptoms are also bipolar symptoms. This week he spent the night at my mom's and said Grandma tell me when it is 1:00 (a.m.) she said why? He said I have to call my friend "John Doe" my mom said you are not calling anyone's house at 1:00 am you'll wake everyone up. He said no, he keeps his cell phone under his pillow so he can hear me call, it's the only time we can talk and nobody will know what we talk about. Normal for 10 year old boys?? He and my daughter sometimes act like boyfriend and girlfriend, not cousins. He gets all giddy if we go to his baseball games and he gets jealous if she is playing with others. I'm not blaming him alone, just concerned for both of their well beings. THANK YOU SOOOOOOO much to all of you for your wonderful advice, very helpful. Protective mama
    protectivemama's Avatar
    protectivemama Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #16

    Jul 18, 2010, 08:56 PM
    Comment on ScottGem's post
    He is on medicine for ADHD but shows several signs of bipolar. Not much structure to his life, Dad is a MAJOR beer drinker, every day after work and weekends. Never really drunk, just short tempered. Does help coach, not a lot of positive parenting.
    protectivemama's Avatar
    protectivemama Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Jul 18, 2010, 08:56 PM
    Comment on mrshodges's post
    I did and will again, thank you!
    protectivemama's Avatar
    protectivemama Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #18

    Jul 18, 2010, 09:02 PM
    Comment on ScottGem's post
    Thank you for the input, we have been keeping them apart and hope that we can talk to my daughter about it enough that they can eventually be together again and she will stand up to him
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #19

    Jul 19, 2010, 05:48 AM

    protectivemama : Thank you. Yes, that is what concerns me. He didn't stop after last year's touching which we thought was harmless but for her to say he put his bum on my bum, was he trying to have intercourse?

    Please don't use the Comment(Reply) button for follow-up. Use the Answer This Question options.

    At 10, I'm not sure he understand the mechanics of intercourse, so I don't think that's what he was trying. But if he has been diagnosed with some development issues, he needs to be monitored.
    Jake2008's Avatar
    Jake2008 Posts: 6,721, Reputation: 3460
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    #20

    Jul 19, 2010, 06:25 AM
    I am in contact with a woman who has a son, with similar problems as you have stated with your nephew.

    Something struck a chord with your nephews use of words. They imply control and manipulation, in a threatening way, that can put another child into a submissive position.

    I have heard the kid I know say things like, "if you don't shut up, I'll shut you up", and when playing with other children, he controls them, and the game they are playing. If they do not comply, he gets more angry and his aggressive until he gets his own way- 100%

    And he has learned, by lack of intervention, supervision, and appropriate consequence, that he can continue to behave as he does. He manipulates his parents the same way- wears them down, and gets his own way.

    Too much time, in my opinion, is spent talking, discussing, involving the 'faults' of the other children (which he says cause him to behave this way), and no direct discipline from the parents to the child happens when a situation gets out of control.

    I find it scary to see him play with toy guns, which to him seem more real and meaningful than other 10 year olds, and is merely another tool to control

    To me, from what you have said about this boy in your life, try not to fall into the trap of thinking that you aren't seeing what you are seeing, or that you are over reacting, or others are responsible for his behaviour. I would say he knows exactly what he is doing.

    If it were my daughter involved in this, I would not allow her to be anywhere near this kid without supervision, and I would also not hesitate to lay down the law with this kid. Be very clear that he is not allowed alone with your daughter- and you do not need to say even why- just lay down the law.

    His parents will have to deal with his problems, but you don't have to deal with anybody's rules but your own.

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