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    AaronL's Avatar
    AaronL Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jun 14, 2010, 12:49 AM
    I would like to install a cleanout for my main drain line from my house to the city sewer system. There is no existing cleanout access for the main sewer drain line.

    House details: Huntington Beach, CA single-family tract house built 1960.

    Today I dug a hole to access the clay drain line. The drain line was appox. 3 feet below grade. I also found that a 45 degree wye exists approx. 2 feet from the foundation, which is plugged or capped. What materials will I need to connect a cleanout to my drain line? The wye is 7 1/2"OD and 6 1/4"ID. I plan to visit Home Depot and my local plumbing store tomorrow, but hopefully some pro plumbers on this site will chime in.

    Thanks in advance for the advice!

    Aaron


    Here are a couple pictures of my work:

    Clay drain pipe with plugged wye


    I dug in the hole in an existing planter between the foundation and the driveway pad. The drain pipe exits the house at the sprinkler riser to my right.

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronL View Post
    Here are a couple pictures of my work:

    Clay drain pipe with plugged wye


    I dug in the hole in an existing planter between the foundation and the driveway pad. The drain pipe exits the house at the sprinkler riser to my right.

    Clay drain pipe with plugged wye


    I dug in the hole in an existing planter between the foundation and the driveway pad. The drain pipe exits the house at the sprinkler riser to my right.


    I did some research and I think a Fernco/Mission 6"x4" (clay-to-cast iron or plastic) coupler will do the trick. Then I would need a 4" ABS 1/8 (45 degree) street bend, approx. 3' of 4" ABS pipe, then a 4" ABS female coupling, and finally a 4" ABS cleanout plug. Does this sound right? Will I need to protect the cleanout with some sort of junction box, like the tyoe used for sprinkler valves?
    speedball1's Avatar
    speedball1 Posts: 29,301, Reputation: 1939
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    #2

    Jun 14, 2010, 07:03 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    I did some research and I think a Fernco/Mission 6"x4" (clay-to-cast iron or plastic) coupler will do the trick. Then I would need a 4" ABS 1/8 (45 degree) street bend, approx. 3' of 4" ABS pipe, then a 4" ABS female coupling, and finally a 4" ABS cleanout plug. Does this sound right? Will I need to protect the cleanout with some sort of junction box, like the tyoe used for sprinkler valves?
    If I understand you correctly you're going to fit a Fernco Coupling over the hub of the clay wye and transition to plastic. There is a better way. You could transition to a ABS street 45 using a Duel-Tite Donut , (see image) and then glue in a short piece with a cleanout. Here's how it's done.
    First clear and clean the terra-cotta hub. Then insert a 6 X 4" Duel-Tite Gasket, (see image) in the hub. Next take the ABS street 45 that you wish to convert to and file and bevel the sharp edges so it will slip into the gasket.
    Next you will need Duel-Tite Lubricant to make the pipe slde in without friction. Apply the lubricant to both the pipe and the gasket. Now force the pipe into the gasket, KEEP IT SQUARE, do not cock it.
    If you have a problem getting it started it's acceptable to take a razor knife and shave down the first few rows of ridges. You have just converted from Terra-Cotta to plastic. Good luck, Tom
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    AaronL's Avatar
    AaronL Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Jun 14, 2010, 09:59 AM

    Thank you, Speedball1! I will be on the lookout for the Duel-Tite donut when I go out for supplies. I didn't even know that part existed. Your solution seems more simple than mine. I will let you know how it goes.
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #4

    Jun 14, 2010, 10:36 AM

    Hi Aaron, I am local plumbing contractor. See, you are doing it yourself and saving about $600.00 in the process. Great job !

    Tom gave you excellent advice, but we don't use donuts around here anymore. Inspectors don't like them. We always have to convert to hubless connection. Donuts will never hold inside the Clay pipe tight and will get loose with seismic activity...

    You should cut off the clay HUB with 4" diamond blade in grinder tool. It cuts easier than you think. Then, go to Home Depot and get 4" Clay x 4" ABS Flex Seal Coupling. ( the actual O.D. is about 6" x 4 1/4" ). Cost: about $10.00. It is made for your situation. Also, ABS glue, 10' of 4" ABS and fittings you make the new pipe to point straight up. Cut off with ground level. Install 4"ABA Female Adaptor (threaded, cost about $6.00) and screw in 4" ABS plug ( cost about $3.00). Job done...

    But if you (really) want to look for "donuts" don't look for them in Home Depot or Lowe's. You have to go to more professional store. In O.C. I would suggest that you go to Ferguson Enterprises. Closest branches to you are in :

    Costa Mesa (1781 Placentia Avenue, Costa Mesa - (949) 650-0646)
    Irvine (1315 N Santiago St, Santa Ana - (714) 547-5797 )
    Santa Ana (6 Cushing, Irvine - (949) 753-0039 )

    I am enclosing pic of Flex Seal aka Mission aka Fernco coupling for better visual...

    Good luck with your project ! Milo
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    #5

    Jun 14, 2010, 10:44 AM

    Milo,
    Thanks for the local advice! I have a 4" angle grinder with a concrete/masonry blade that should cut the clay hub. Just to clarify, I am removing the flared part of the clay hub so I can connect to a 4" piece of clay pipe, correct?
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #6

    Jun 14, 2010, 10:48 AM

    Exactly... Cut off that enlarged end. See the pic...

    Cutting will produce lot of dust. We always have bottle of water handy, poke a small hole in the cap and squirt water under the blade. This way you won't choke to death in the trench.

    Important: Wear good pair of HD gloves and goggles.

    Let us know how you did. Milo
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    AaronL Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Jun 14, 2010, 10:53 AM

    I will be sure to use water to control the cutting dust and wear goggles and a mask.

    I called a couple plumbers for estimates and they quoted $100-150 parts and labor. I will go to Home Depot to now to find some parts.


    How will I test this connection once I make the repair? The drain should not be under pressure, so I'm thinking I will just test by using my drains inside the house? Any particular methods?
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #8

    Jun 14, 2010, 10:57 AM

    Hmmm... you should send me their phone numbers ! I can have LOTS of work for them !:D

    Each rubber coupling has paper band around it specifying what pipe it can be used for. Don't get confused if it says 4" clay and the actual OD is 6". Go by the designation on the sticker...


    Yes, assemble new clean out and run lot of water from inside of the house. Observe the connection for few minutes. Unless you broke the Clay pipe during cutting - it should hold. Forgot to tell you: be very careful you don't break the Clay pipe while cutting!.
    AaronL's Avatar
    AaronL Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    Jun 14, 2010, 01:18 PM

    Got my supplies: 10' ABS pipe, 4"-4" clay-ABS coupler, 4" ABS 45 deg street fitting, 4" female coupling, 4" cleanout cap, and ABS cement.

    I had a plumber come by to estimate and he recommended a 2-way sweep fitting for the cleanout to allow for snaking both ways. This would mean more digging and cutting out the clay wye, then installing a 4" ABS 2-way sweep fitting. Is this necessary?


    Another question: Can I leave the cleanout fitting bare in the ground? Or should I install a box around it, something like a sprinkler valve box?
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #10

    Jun 14, 2010, 01:21 PM

    Do you have lots of problems with blockages INSIDE your house ? If not, I would not worry too much about it. You can always remove toilet and snake it from there.
    AaronL's Avatar
    AaronL Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Jun 14, 2010, 01:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal View Post
    Do you have lots of problems with blockages INSIDE your house ? If not, I would not worry too much about it. You can always remove toilet and snake it from there.
    We just moved here in September 2009 and this is the first time we've had any plumbing concerns. Removing a toilet is no problem if it means making this job much more simple.
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #12

    Jun 14, 2010, 01:25 PM

    Leave clean out fitting in ( or slightly above ) the ground. Bring it all the way up to the dirt level, cut it off and install Female Adapter and plug. Looks like new clean out will be hidden inside landscaping - so I would even cut it off few inches above the ground. This way, it will be easier for you to located it.
    AaronL's Avatar
    AaronL Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Jun 14, 2010, 01:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal View Post
    Leave clean out fitting in ( or slightly above ) the ground. Bring it all the way up to the dirt level, cut it off and install Female Adapter and plug. Looks like new clean out will be hidden inside landscaping - so I would even cut it off few inches above the ground. This way, it will be easier for you to located it.
    Will do. Thanks again Milo.
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #14

    Jun 14, 2010, 01:28 PM

    Absolutely... Most blockages are on the outside of the house caused by root growth, sagging or collapsed pipes. Occasional blockages within the footprint of the house happen - but can be easily cleaned from the most distant toilet.

    Btw: What are you going to do with the orange overalls after you finish this project ?:D:D:D
    AaronL's Avatar
    AaronL Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Jun 14, 2010, 01:36 PM

    Thanks for the blockage info, Milo.

    I love my orange coveralls. They were a gift from my wife about 3 years ago. They have been used countless times and I'll continue to use them for years to come. In fact, I need to patch a couple of knee holes that have developed from continued use!
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #16

    Jun 14, 2010, 01:50 PM

    LOL !


    Let me know how the clean out installation went... Milo
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    AaronL Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Jun 15, 2010, 05:33 PM

    Update on my first major plumbing project: SUCCESS!

    I followed Milo's advice to cut off the bell of the clay wye so I could use a hubless flexible coupling from the clay wye to the ABS pipe. Then I assembled the ABS fittings and pipe to bring the cleanout a couple inches above grade. It all went smoothly and took me an additional 2 hours of work. Now I will leave it exposed for a few days to check for leaks, then replace all the dirt.

    Materials cost was $60 for ABS pipe, fittings, coupling, ABS cement.

    Pictures to follow.

    Aaron
    Milo Dolezal's Avatar
    Milo Dolezal Posts: 7,192, Reputation: 523
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    #18

    Jun 15, 2010, 06:31 PM

    Glad I was able to help you ! Swing by again if you need any other plumbing advice in the future ! Best Regards. Milo

    PS: Maybe I bump into you under the Pier one of these days... :D:D:D
    AaronL's Avatar
    AaronL Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #19

    Jun 15, 2010, 10:35 PM
    Pictures:

    Found it! Right where my neighbor said it would be... 4 feet down directly perpendicular to the 4" vent pipe on the roof.




    Cast iron drain pipe from under the house on the left, transitions to a 4" clay wye on the right which, then connects to the 4" sewer line out to the street. Wye fitting is plugged.




    4 1/2" die grinder, masonry cutoff wheel on right. Cut around the circumference of bell, then use chisel and hammer to release the pieces from the wye.




    4" clay wye with bell removed using 4 1/2" die grinder with masonry cutoff wheel.




    Close up view inside the main drain line through the wye. Looks pretty clean to me... no visible roots, blockages, or backups at this point. Location is approximately 3 feet away from foundation.




    Tools and parts ready to install the cleanout. Left to right: 4 1/2" die grinder with masonry cutoff wheel, 10' ABS pipe, ABS cement, 4" cleanout cap, 4" clay to 4" ABS flexible coupling, 4" ABS femal cleanout fitting, 4" ABS 45 degree street/spigot elbow.

    AaronL's Avatar
    AaronL Posts: 20, Reputation: 1
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    #20

    Jun 15, 2010, 10:36 PM

    More pictures:

    4" clay wye with bell cut off, 4" clay to 4" ABS flexible coupling, 4" ABS 45 degree street/spigot elbow.




    Fully assembled ABS cleanout: 45 degree street/spigot elbow, 2 1/2' of 4" ABS pipe, female cleanout fitting, 4" cleanout cap.




    Completed cleanout installation. Saved myself at least $600! Now I need to watch it for the next few days to make sure it remains leak-free then fill with dirt.


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