I have a well (submersible pump) and a water softner. When the well cuts on the pressure rapidly builds to 55 psi. It then loses this pressure fairly quickly (loss of pressure in the house). It drops from 55 psi (with the shower running) to about 37 psi in about 30 seconds. The "above ground pump" (a little pump that is mounted on top of a pressure tank) is also on and maintains the 37 psi for about 60 seconds or so until the submersible cuts on again. How do I maintain higher pressures for longer peroids of time. Is the top-side pump not working properly? The submersible raises the pressure to 55 psi very quickly, but loses it rapidly once cutting off (even with the other pump running). Any ideas?

This above ground pump is interesting. Let me see if I have your setup right. Your submersible pump pumps into a pressure tank. It cuts off at 55 and on at 37. The water then goes from that pressure tank into a second tank with a small pump on top. Is that correct? If so, let me ask a few questions.

1. Will the system hold pressure when no water is being used?
2. Is it possible that the little pump is some sort of air injection pump which is used with a filter?
3. The tank the little pump sits on, is it cigar shaped or "fat" like most pressure tanks?

jlisenbe,

Thank you very much for the response. I am fairly ignorant regarding this issue, but I know a little. Good question regarding the static pressure (when not in use). I will check in the AM. Here is how I THINK my system works: water is pumped from the submersible to a holding tank (about 100 gallons give or take). It then goes through through the softener and into the house. There are two pressure tanks (the shape of a propane cylinder that would be used with a gas grill) involved in this process. The second pump is not an air injection pump. It looks to me like a centrifugal booster pump that might maintain pressure while the sumersible is at rest... not sure though. I am wondering if the second pump might be wearing out? Is it possible for a pump to become "less efficient" or is it an "all or none" proposition? It is a head scratcher. The pressure used to be better, but it isn't terrible now either... just less. Could it be a pressure switch going bad? Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Talk to you soon.

Dave

Systems like yours usually operate like this. The submersible pump pumps into a holding tank. The holding tank is not under pressure. The second pump then pumps from the holding tank into a pressure tank. The second pump is responsible for generating pressure. Not sure if that is what you have, but I would first check the pressure in the pressure tank attached to the second pump. Turn off power, then drain the tank through a low level faucet. When system pressure is at zero, use a tire gauge to check the pressure at the top of the tank. It should be set at 35 pounds.

Also, check to see if the system will hold pressure with no water being used.

It's possible that the submersible is pumping into a pressure tank rather than merely a holding tank. If that is the case, then check the pressure in the tank as described above. It is also quite possible that a pressure tank is water logged, meaning that it has very little air in it. The tank should be about half water (bottom) and half air (top). MOst tanks use a membrane called a bladder to separate the two. If the bladder ruptures, then it's just a matter of time before the air dissolves into the water, thus the tank becomes waterlogged. Check that by depressing the little tire valve at the top of the tank for a few seconds. If water comes out, then you have your answer.

If possible, attach a picture or two of your system.

Thanks again for all the help, jlisenbe. Much appreciated. You were on the money with regards to how the system work (pumps to a holding tank first). One thing I didn't understand was why I needed to drain the holding tank in order to test the pressure tank? I put a gauge on both pressure tanks (without draining the large tank... didn't want to do that until I was sure that is what you meant) and they read 35 and 37 psi, respectively. Keep in mind that the pressure drop isn't a big drop... maybe 10 psi. It is definitely noticeable, but everything still works. Weird. Could it be the moen cartridges in the shower? We had a month or two where the water was "hard" (softener wasn't working). Could they have become partially clogged? Is it possible that the above ground pump isn't working as efficiently? It is about 8 years old. Thanks again!

Thanks again for all the help, jlisenbe. Much appreciated. You were on the money with regards to how the system work (pumps to a holding tank first). One thing I didn't understand was why I needed to drain the holding tank in order to test the pressure tank? I put a gauge on both pressure tanks (without draining the large tank... didn't want to do that until I was sure that is what you meant) and they read 35 and 37 psi, respectively. Keep in mind that the pressure drop isn't a big drop... maybe 10 psi. It is definitely noticeable, but everything still works. Weird. Could it be the moen cartridges in the shower? We had a month or two where the water was "hard" (softener wasn't working). Could they have become partially clogged? Is it possible that the above ground pump isn't working as efficiently? It is about 8 years old. Thanks again!

You are correct. You would not drain the holding tank.

The water softener is definitely a place to look. Most of them have a bypass valve. Turn the bypass valve to take the softener out of the system and see if that solves your problem. And I would take out the shower filter as well just to see if that changes things.

The problem you described at first involved a quick drop in pressure from 55 to 37 in about thirty seconds. You also indicated that the submersible pump cutting on would run the pressure up to about 55. In your system, the submersible pump simply fills the holding tank. That should not build any pressure at all. It should be controlled by a float switch, which simply cuts the pump off or on based on the level of water in the holding tank. Any concerns about pressure need to be directed to the booster pump which is above ground. I am assuming that it pumps into the two pressure tanks. If that is true, then you should get a LONG cycle time of pressure dropping from 55 to 37, at which point the pump (above ground) cuts on to build pressure back to 55. You want to make sure your check valve is preventing water from flowing from the pressure tanks back into the holding tank. That is why I am asking you to see if the system will hold pressure when the pump is off and no water is being used. Tell us about that. Also, tell us why there would be two pressure tanks.

I am not sure why there are two pressure tanks. One is connected to the large diameter pipe coming from underground (submersible pipe). The other is located between the fill tank and the softener. The pressure at rest stays steady... it does not drop. I guess that brings us back to the filters or the pump?

I am a firefighter and am working the next 24 hours (starting in the AM). When I get home I will take a photo and show you the set up. Thanks a million. You have been great.

Do that. It will be helpful. I have a funny feeling that your fill tank is not a holding tank at all. It would not work at all to pump into a pressure tank, then into a holding tank. The holding tank would be overflowing 24/7. What we are calling a holding tank might be some sort of settling tank for sediments. Your pictures will be interesting.

Hopefully you will be able to access the photos I attached. You will notice that there are two pressure tanks, a fill (holding tank) and a softener. The above ground pump is mounted on top of the pressure tank because the ground is "low" and during the rainy season it could have been underwater. I hope these help. It must be tough diagnosising problems over the net. Thanks for your expertise. It could be a whole host of issues I am sure.

Just to rehash... the pressure isn't as profound as it was a few months ago. It isn't terrible, but definitely less. We had hard water a few months ago for an extended period that did a number on the hot water heater so it may have effected the moen cartridges in the valves. I guess it is possible, too, that the above ground pump is not working as efficiently as it once was (8 years old). Or, maybe there is a small air leak somewhere, although the faucets aren't "spitting out air". Thoughts?

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I think your system works as follows: The arrow below points to the wellhead which has the switch (small grey box) which controls the pump in the well. It then enters the pressure tank to the left through a T fitting. I have a circle drawn there. From there it goes to what is probably a settling tank (2) on the right. I would not think it is a pressure tank, though the water in it is under pressure. But there would not be air at the top as in a pressure tank. From there it goes to your second pump (3) and then to the filter (4). From there it goes to the ground (5) and then to the house. My only question is this: What does the pump in the picture use for a pressure tank, and that would have to be the tank under the pump. If all this is correct, then the above ground pump is responsible for maintaining pressure in the house.

A few observations:

1. Can you tell if the pump is somehow connected to the tank under it?

2. The pressure tank under the tank, if indeed it is somehow connected to the pump, seems awfully small. It is probably not capable of doing much more than you described, which is about a minute of water usage before the pump has to cut on.

3. Check the tank on the left in the picture and make sure it is not waterlogged. Depress the tire valve at the top for three or four seconds and make sure water does not come out.

4. If you had a small leak, you would notice the pump cycling on and off even though no water was being used.

5. Make sure you try bypassing the filter. It should have a bypass valve under the cover, right where the two pipes join together.

6. I don't see pressure gauges anywhere. How are you measuring pressure?

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Wow!! Nice work. You know... it does look as though the tank under the pump isn't connected. It may have been used just to elevate the pump?! It is dark as I type this or else I would go look (went to use our flashlight and one of the kids left it on the last time they played with it). Anyway, there is one gauge located where you drew the circle (near the T). You can't see it in the picture, but it is there. There is only one gauge though, and it is for the submersible. So you think the tank is undersized?

I will try the bypass. I forgot you mentioned that already. I will get back to you on that. Thanks again for everything!!

A little more. If the visible pump is not connected to a pressure tank, then it is functioning as basically a booster pump. It's job is to help provide a consistent volume of water to your house. When you are reading your pressure gauge, you are actually reading the pressure BEHIND your booster pump, not past it. The submersible pump is controlled by an electrical switch (small grey box), and it sounds like it turns on at about 37# and cuts off at 55#. Perhaps it is able to raise pressure back to 55 so quickly because the pressure tank it feeds into is relatively small. Check the size of the tank tomorrow. The good news would be that your well pump seems able to produce a good flow of water.