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    hardware guy's Avatar
    hardware guy Posts: 6, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jul 30, 2009, 03:20 PM
    Multi speed motor switch
    I have an old blower motor with squirrel cage from an old furnace it is a 4 speed motor I would like to know how to install 4 separate switches 1 for each speed. It is for use in a workshop . Sometimes I need low for air circulation sometimes need a higher speed for various uses.
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #2

    Jul 30, 2009, 03:54 PM

    That's the hard way of doing it. You failed to mention the HP rating of the motor. Something like this will work: 0499000074 4 Position Rotary Switch

    Combined with an ON/OFF switch or contactor + ON/OFF switch.

    A contactor is a relay.

    It would be best not to turn the selector switch while the motor is running, but if the switch is HP rated, it should be OK.

    The rotary switch selects one of each of the 4 windings and the on off switch in series turns on and off the fan.

    Again, HP rated or use a contactor.

    The key is having the right HP and voltage ratings.
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    hardware guy Posts: 6, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Jul 30, 2009, 04:57 PM
    [

    Dear keep the hp of the motor is 1/3 hp. Voltage 120 6.5 amp. 1075rpm. It will be used for a garage/workshop. The intention is use the speed needed and turn off I hope this is more helpful. Thank you for your reply








    QUOTE=KeepItSimpleStupid;1892002]That's the hard way of doing it. You failed to mention the HP rating of the motor. Something like this will work: 0499000074 4 Position Rotary Switch

    Combined with an ON/OFF switch or contactor + ON/OFF switch.

    A contactor is a relay.

    It would be best not to turn the selector switch while the motor is running, but if the switch is HP rated, it should be OK.

    The rotary switch selects one of each of the 4 windings and the on off switch in series turns on and off the fan.

    Again, HP rated or use a contactor.

    The key is having the right HP and voltage ratings.[/QUOTE]
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #4

    Jul 30, 2009, 05:53 PM

    Yep. Just don't know your exact plans. Here is a ready made 3 position + off. Rotary Switch Manufacturer - Rotary Switches, HVAC Switch, Inductive Motor Load, Rotary Electrical Switch

    In this case you would loose a speed, but it gives you 3 speeds + off. This is probably what you don't want in a work shop.

    Another option is to use a HP rated wall switch to turn on the fan and an enclosure that selects the speed or you could put the speed selection at the air hander.

    Other options are to use a start/stop push button switch for power. In this case when there is a power failure, the fan shuts off.

    In your case, I think you'd be happier with a 4 position switch to select the speed. This is known as a 1 pole 4 position Horsepower Rated Rotary switch. Switched power goes in on one of the terminals and each winding goes to each of the other 4.

    The advantage is that only one winding can be energised at a time.

    If this were an industrial setting, then a NEMA 1 enclosure would be mounted on the wall with say two switches.

    One is the rotary switch

    The other could be a controls rated ON/OFF; or a two momentary switches in a START/STOP configuration or even a mushroom button.

    But you cab use a HP rated toggle switch for the ON/OFF function like your familiar with, like this one Toggle Switch,1P,20A,Brown,Specification - Wall Switches - Switches - Electrical : Grainger Industrial Supply, but you need to be a business to buy from Grainger.
    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #5

    Jul 30, 2009, 06:23 PM

    If you had 4 switches, someone would turn on more than 1 at a time(Likely) May damage motor.
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    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #6

    Jul 30, 2009, 08:08 PM

    We need some pretty pictures like the weird doorbell.
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    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
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    #7

    Jul 30, 2009, 10:22 PM

    Not sure I follow you Kiss. Do you mean draw a bank of switches?
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    hardware guy Posts: 6, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    Jul 31, 2009, 05:06 AM
    Stm I have this already worked out my plan is to get switch lock. And only 1 at a time can be used the others would be in lock position. Or all of them can be locked if you like, so no one can get hurt.




    Quote Originally Posted by Stratmando View Post
    If you had 4 switches, someone would turn on more than 1 at a time(Likely) May damage motor.
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    hardware guy Posts: 6, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Jul 31, 2009, 05:36 AM
    [
    Thanks again k good advice. Buying from grainger no problem my employer has an account with them that we are able to use for personal purchases. The one thing I do not understand is how to wire up a sp toggle switch or a push button switch( I for each speed)
    There is 1 power sourse coming in (1 w 1 b 1g ) I do not know to wire them up to use 1 at a time depending on the speed required.







    QUOTE=KeepItSimpleStupid;1892241]Yep. Just don't know your exact plans. Here is a ready made 3 position + off. Rotary Switch Manufacturer - Rotary Switches, HVAC Switch, Inductive Motor Load, Rotary Electrical Switch

    In this case you would loose a speed, but it gives you 3 speeds + off. This is probably what you don't want in a work shop.

    Another option is to use a HP rated wall switch to turn on the fan and an enclosure that selects the speed or you could put the speed selection at the air hander.

    Other options are to use a start/stop push button switch for power. In this case when there is a power failure, the fan shuts off.

    In your case, I think you'd be happier with a 4 position switch to select the speed. This is known as a 1 pole 4 position Horsepower Rated Rotary switch. Switched power goes in on one of the terminals and each winding goes to each of the other 4.

    The advantage is that only one winding can be energised at a time.

    If this were an industrial setting, then a NEMA 1 enclosure would be mounted on the wall with say two switches.

    One is the rotary switch

    The other could be a controls rated ON/OFF; or a two momentary switches in a START/STOP configuration or even a mushroom button.

    But you cab use a HP rated toggle switch for the ON/OFF function like your familiar with, like this one Toggle Switch,1P,20A,Brown,Specification - Wall Switches - Switches - Electrical : Grainger Industrial Supply, but you need to be a business to buy from Grainger.[/QUOTE]
    tkrussell's Avatar
    tkrussell Posts: 9,659, Reputation: 725
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    #11

    Jul 31, 2009, 05:36 AM
    This can be solved with a variable speed control,

    Broan 72V Variable Speed Wall Control

    or the 5 position switch suggested by Kiss.

    Doing this with 4 separate switches is not safe, even if you promise to lock the switches off.

    Anything that must rely on human intervention to insure that two switches are not closed accidential is just not Code.

    You may do this plan you mention at your own risk, no one here can condone this.
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #12

    Jul 31, 2009, 07:22 AM

    Correct me if I'm wrong:

    Your motor has 5 wires? N S1 S2 S3 S3 (for example)
    Does it or does it not use a capacitor (big cylindrical object)? Would add an extra one or two wires. There would usually be a color code marked on the motor and a value like 4.7 uf 300 V somewhere, not always.

    That's what I'm going on. Any numbers or other information to say the type of motor would be great.

    Like induction, PSC would also help.

    There a SO MANY different kinds of motors now.

    My ASSUMPTION is based on you need to power two leads at a time to make the motor run. One of those leads is common. The other leads must be mutually exclusive.

    One switch (rotary) selects speed.

    One switch looks like a walls switch, but inductively or HP rated)
    turns the motor on/off.



    The longest life of the switches will be achieved when the speeds are mot changed with the fan running. You can with the right switch and the suggested one will.

    Aside: On a typical ceiling fan, for instance, the reversing swich should be operated with the fan stopped. The motor type prevents the sparks from flying, but the switch used is not rated to be changed while the fan is running.

    Here is an example of an emerging technology for HVAC motors. http://www.thedealertoolbox.com/file...ntbrochure.pdf



    Hk:
    Definitely came up with a switch method where no two windings can be engaged at the same time.

    Push button speed selection requires a special switch. They must be interlocking. When you push 1, the others pop out.

    Toggle switch (1 per speed) isn't practical at all.

    One if the selector switch manufacturer's that I mentioned did have a more than 4 speed switch available.

    Variable speed requires much more consideration.
    hardware guy's Avatar
    hardware guy Posts: 6, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Jul 31, 2009, 07:54 AM
    [

    kiss this motor has a capacitor installed w/ 2 brown wires.there are 5 wires left I white (common) and the other 4 are 1 black 1blue 1 red 1 yellow I believe are the hot speed wires. The motor is emerson 1/3 hp. 6.5 amp 120 v rpm 1075 4 spd. Model # k55hxctw 3340 . This is all the information I could find thanks again for your help hg













    QUOTE=KeepItSimpleStupid;1893432]Correct me if I'm wrong:

    Your motor has 5 wires? N S1 S2 S3 S3 (for example)
    Does it or does it not use a capacitor (big cylindrical object)? Would add an extra one or two wires. There would usually be a color code marked on the motor and a value like 4.7 uf 300 V somewhere, not always.

    That's what I'm going on. Any numbers or other information to say the type of motor would be great.

    Like induction, PSC would also help.

    There a SO MANY different kinds of motors now.

    My ASSUMPTION is based on you need to power two leads at a time to make the motor run. One of those leads is common. The other leads must be mutually exclusive.

    One switch (rotary) selects speed.

    One switch looks like a walls switch, but inductively or HP rated)
    turns the motor on/off.



    The longest life of the switches will be achieved when the speeds are mot changed with the fan running. You can with the right switch and the suggested one will.

    Aside: On a typical ceiling fan, for instance, the reversing swich should be operated with the fan stopped. The motor type prevents the sparks from flying, but the switch used is not rated to be changed while the fan is running.

    Here is an example of an emerging technology for HVAC motors. http://www.thedealertoolbox.com/file...ntbrochure.pdf



    Hk:
    Definitely came up with a switch method where no two windings can be engaged at the same time.

    Push button speed selection requires a special switch. They must be interlocking. When you push 1, the others pop out.

    Toggle switch (1 per speed) isn't practical at all.

    One if the selector switch manufacturer's that I mentioned did have a more than 4 speed switch available.

    Variable speed requires much more consideration.[/QUOTE]
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #14

    Jul 31, 2009, 08:18 AM

    Good: So it's probably a PSC (Permanent Split Capacitor) Motor.

    I think you have two options:
    1. Four speed (rotary switch selectable( with on/off
    2. Variable speed like tk suggested

    I suppose I can do a schematic.

    You have to think about how you might implement this.
    1. Where is the on/off switch?
    1a ON/OFF from multiple locations
    2. Where is the speed switch going to be located?
    2a. Assume one location
    3. ON/OFF temperature control?
    4. Any timers?

    Fancy/Simple/Some where in the middle
    Fancy can be anything from a NEMA enclosure with conduit running to the speed selector switch and a separate on/off wall switch.

    That's probably where I would head. Fancier would add DIN rail/DIN terminal blocks and make it very easy to troubleshoot and move.
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    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #15

    Jul 31, 2009, 08:37 AM
    Schematic - sort of.
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    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #16

    Jul 31, 2009, 10:06 AM

    Ti give you an idea of what's possible, here is an OEM speed controller. http://www.controlres.com/pdf/nimbushp.pdf

    It seems that most stuff that I found is applicable to ceiling fans whose HP ratiings are small.

    Finding something is no guarantee that you can get it, Minimum order requirements, wholesale only etc.

    I did post in this thread a possible switch (No documentation online) and the grainger toggle. There was a second page posted, but no actual known source of parts.
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #17

    Jul 31, 2009, 10:11 AM

    hardware guy:

    PS: I've used curly braces. They need to be these "[" and "]"

    Your trying to do the quote, the "[" is hanging.

    A quote looks like {Quote=name}quote{/Quote}

    Where the curly braces have been replaced with these things "[]"

    name is optional.
    I'm not sure what option your editor is set at. Most use a WYSIWYG kind of option. My inout box displays the exact codes. I wish there was anoher option.
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    hardware guy Posts: 6, Reputation: 1
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    #18

    Jul 31, 2009, 10:19 AM
    kiss no timers no temp control 1 location . I have built a frame for this with wheels so it is portable around 8 or10 " from the floor. I plan on mounting the switch on side of the frame. With a power cord say 8' or 10' long to plug in to an outlet it can be rolled around wherever it is needed. Like your name simple I do not need variable speed since it has 4 speeds any way just the speed select and a on off switch thank you







    QUOTE=KeepItSimpleStupid;1893548]Good: So it's probably a PSC (Permanent Split Capacitor) Motor.

    I think you have two options:
    1. Four speed (rotary switch selectable( with on/off
    2. Variable speed like tk suggested

    I suppose I can do a schematic.

    You have to think about how you might implement this.
    1. Where is the on/off switch?
    1a ON/OFF from multiple locations
    2. Where is the speed switch going to be located?
    2a. Assume one location
    3. ON/OFF temperature control?
    4. Any timers?

    Fancy/Simple/Some where in the middle
    Fancy can be anything from a NEMA enclosure with conduit running to the speed selector switch and a separate on/off wall switch.

    That's probably where I would head. Fancier would add DIN rail/DIN terminal blocks and make it very easy to troubleshoot and move.[/QUOTE]
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #19

    Jul 31, 2009, 10:42 AM

    Call these guys:

    Rotary Switch Manufacturer - Rotary Switches, HVAC Switch, Inductive Motor Load, Rotary Electrical Switch

    See if you can get a Series D switch with 4 positions plus off and your done.

    I'd mount the switch in a dual gang box with a blank cover that has been drilled. You'll have to make sure to use the intenal star washers because you can't make a D shaped hole.

    Use cord connectors to get however many wires you need to get into the box. You need power (14/3) SO cord. And 4 speeds. You might be able to get 14/4 SO cord at a local electric supplier.

    Now take this to a junction box that's omewhat inaccessible which has the individual wires in and a cord connector out. Put a grommet where the individual wires enter.

    Let me know if you cans secure a switch?

    If you want the separate switch, you can do that too. Just use a single gang box and 2 cord connectors. The OFF on the rotary switch will be redundant. This should be a HP rated switch like I pointed out at Granger.

    Does it all make sense?

    The other switch will work too. Gotcha's are knobs, star washers and labeling.
    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
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    #20

    Jul 31, 2009, 01:51 PM

    Then how about this:
    GE ASR5173-496 5-POSITION ROTARY SWITCH 8 AMP 31839 - eBay (item 220363835835 end time Aug-16-09 13:21:55 PDT)
    Then have switch positions be (Off, High and work down to lowest speed), you do NOT want it to be Off, low and lug up to highest speed.
    This way you have 1 switch, not 2?

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